# How do I get grant? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 22, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577 "2004-06-22T04:54:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/1 "2004-06-22T04:54:06Z")
I was talking to a friend of mine the other day, and she said her cousin got a $50,000 grant to start a new business. “Hm,” thought I, “I’d like a grant to start my own business.” Here’s the idea: I tried to find out where I can rent a helicopter. Turns out that the nearest place is in the next county. The area I’m in has a lot of people with a lot of money. (I’d never thought about it before I was hired by a business that makes automated gates. Lots of people are spending $14,000 to $20,000 or more for automated gates, and there are a _lot_ of nice expensive houses around here.) Surely, some of these people would want to learn to fly helicopters. The fixed-wing operations seem to be doing okay. I’m also conveniently located near Vancouver, BC and it’s couple million inhabitants. My town is also a “seaside resort”. Lots of people come during the summer, and I’m sure they would like to go aloft. And it would be a nice treat for the kiddies. But at 45% of my previous wage, I can’t afford to get my commercial and instructor ratings. A grant would sure do the trick! I’m thinking that, as a very rough estimate, it will take $20,000 to get the needed ratings. Maybe less, since I already have my private certificate and enough hours in my log book. Then I need a helicopter. That’s harder. A new R-22 goes for around 200 kilobucks. I could probably find a used one with some hours left before overhaul for $150,000 or so. Figure in about $15,000 per year for insurance. And I’d need a place to keep it. I might be able to do it for $200,000. Making money at it is harder. One of my instructors only made $6,000 one year in the early '90s. (Now he owns the company.) Given that the weather is not as amenable to flying as it is in SoCal, and that the population base is smaller, I’d still have to have a “real job”. But I figure I can teach on good days (weather permitting) and offer sightseeing flights and instruction in the summer. Not an easy way to make a living, but a bloody pleasant way to starve to death! 😃 So how do I get a grant? Is there something for people whose jobs were sent overseas? My friend’s cousin is a single mother with seven kids, and lives in a depressed area of the country. I have a suspicion that being a single female gave her an edge. I’m outta luck there. My friend is an ex-Army Black Hawk pilot. Maybe _she_ could get a grant and we could go into business together? (One of us works while the other one studies, then we trade off.) How do I find out if there is a grant available? How do I go about applying for it? How do I gain an advantage over other applicants? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/2 "2004-06-22T05:17:07Z")
What you want to do is get a Small Business Loan. With a decent business plan, a good credit rating and the nice people at some local banks, you can get a $20,000 - $50,000 loan fairly easily. (Having a lawyer and/or accountant to help prepare all your stuff helps too.) This advice courtesy of my cousin, the Small Businessman. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/3 "2004-06-22T05:36:01Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > What you want to do is get a Small Business Loan. No, I think what he actually wants to do is get a grant. You know, the ones you don’t have to pay back. **Johnny L.A.** , you may want to search through [www.grants.gov](http://www.grants.gov) or the [Catalogue of Domestic Federal Assistance](http://12.46.245.173/cfda/cfda.html) (CDFA) to see if there’s something that meets your needs. Alternatively, you can just buy a book from Matthew Lesko (the question mark guy), who’s already done the searching and indexing for you (apparently, I don’t own any of his books). Perhaps check to see if the library carries a copy. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/4 "2004-06-22T05:39:25Z")
You may be interested in programs the government has to offer. Now, you can find out about them in those overhyped books they sell on late night informercials, but all those are is US government information repackaged. (Er, I do assume you’re in the US.) The best thing to do to find out about these programs is avail yourself of the services of a government documents librarian. Find out where the nearest US documents depository is to you - [here](http://www.gpoaccess.gov/libraries.html) The most experienced documents librarians with the most complete collections are probably at your state’s regional depository library, which are noted on the lists at that link, but any worth their salt should be able to either help you or refer you to somebody who can. There are a lot of federal programs that exist to help small businesses and such, and I think people often don’t take advantage of government programs because it’s a little harder to find out about them. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/5 "2004-06-22T12:22:09Z")
> [@](#): > > No, I think what he actually wants to do is get a grant. You know, the ones you don’t have to pay back. Yes. Knowing how precarious a business General Aviation often is, it would be good if I didn’t have to pay a loan back. > [@](#): > > Alternatively, you can just buy a book from Matthew Lesko (the question mark guy) A “book”? 😕 Oh! A non-volatile, random-access storage medium. (See, I did learn something from _Max Headroon_. 😃 ) My friend’s cousin got her grant by using that book. I took a _very_ cursory look through one at Borders last year, and the grants I saw seemed to be for minorities and women. Checking **Garfield** ’s links… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/6 "2004-06-22T13:04:53Z")
The pickings look slim. But I did find this: > [@](#): > > Section 505 of the Family Support Act of 1988, Public Law 100-485, as amended, authorizes the Secretary of HHS to enter into agreements with non-profit organizations (including faith-based organizations and community development corporations) for the purpose of conducting projects designed to create employment opportunities for certain low-income individuals (42 U.S.C. '9926). Priority Areas… Priority Area 4. Non-Traditional Projects Applicants applying under this priority area must show that these projects will train and employ women and minorities in industries and trades where they make up 25 percent or less of the workforce in local industries, for example, women and minorities in highway or heavy construction, machine tool and die, plumbing, construction, and deconstruction, computer repair, lead abatement, etc. I believe that women and minorities make up less than 25% of the pilots in the U.S., and helicopter pilots are a minority in the flying community. The description also says “and employ”. If my friend moves back to the state, she could certainly be employed in the business. Other women and minorities can be employed as flight instructors or slightseeing pilots when I (or my friend, assuming she participates) am not available. Chinese- or Indian-speaking pilots would be an asset in this area. This looks a little less likey: > [@](#): > > Priority Area 2. Self-Employment/Micro-enterprise Projects Applicants applying under Priority Area 2 must show that the proposed project will create self-employment/micro-enterprise opportunities for eligible participants. Self-employment is the creation of a business that is designed to employ a single individual such as home-based day care, graphic design, medical billings, sewing and secretarial service, etc. Micro-enterprise is the creation of a business that is designed to hire more than one person, i.e., a cleaning business that will create more than one job. For this Priority Area, OCS does not consider a job to have been created until contracts and/or subcontracts have been committed at the end of the training for each of these self-employment/micro-enterprise businesses that ultimately may be construed as jobs. All applications under this priority area must address the following items: - The types of self-employment and/or micro-enterprise businesses that may thrive in your target area - Need for such businesses in those communities - Applicant’s ability to help secure commitments of contracts/subcontracts at the end of the training for each of those self-employment/micro-enterprise businesses. More specifically, who is going to provide the contracts or subcontracts to the individuals that complete the entrepreneur training. The end result of the project should be jobs for low-income individuals. OCS wants to be assured that there are commitments (contracts/subcontracts) attached to entrepreneurs at the end of their training that will ultimately be construed as jobs. Will my business create self-employment/micro-enterprise opportunities for people who successfully complete the training? Yes. Anyone who earns a flight instructor rating would be eligible to apply for a position within the company. They would also be able to seek employment with other helicopter training facilities. The types of self-employment and/or micro-enterprise businesses that may thrive in the target area: There is only room for one helicopter flight school here. However, it is possible that as the business grows students may be attracted from the Vancouver metropolitan area. Need for such businesses in those communities: As I mentioned, there are currently no rotary wing flight schools in the county. My business would provide one. Providing the contracts is a little more difficult. Since mine would be the “only game in town”, it would be up to me to offer employment to those who successfully complete the training. While wouldn’t be able to hire _every_ graduate, I could supply them with leads to other schools. I should probably download the application and send it to my friend as well. Being a female vet, she may stand a better chance of winning it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/7 "2004-06-22T13:19:35Z")
Oops. On further reading: > [@](#): > > Note: The Office of Community Services will not fund projects where the cost-per-job in OCS funds exceeds $10,000. The maximum number of points will be given only to those applicants proposing cost-per-job created estimates of $10,000 or less of OCS requested funds. Well, _that_ ain’t gonna fly. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/8 "2004-06-22T19:04:45Z")
There are two topics here: setting up a helicoptor business, and getting free money. I have my own opinions about the morality of getting free money from tax payers, especially money set aside for vets, minorities and women when you’re none of these, but I won’t spew them here. Oops too late, I guess I did. But if you’re serious about setting up a business, here is some advice: Ultimately, it comes down to two things: a) your current upfront costs are too high. Find a way to reduce them, and b) come up with a full plan, especially encompassing where you’ll get revenue Specifics: - Plan out how you will find customers. You mentioned some specific ideas for customers (summer tourist business, training). Where can you advertise? What channels can you build (i.e. talk to travel agents about including your service as part of a vacation package, etc.)? What are the costs of finding them? How soon will they ramp up? - What can you charge for your services? How many customers can you pack into a day? How many can you take on a tour at once? Ultimately, how much can you expect to make per month (note that this isn’t a single number, but a graph, starting at $0 in the first month). - Work out all the financials. You’ve proposed numbers for upfront costs (220k). Also propose ongoing monthly costs and income numbers. Be sure to include sales and marketing expenditures. - From the above, figure out how long it will take you to break even, and how much you (and the people who you want to invest in you) will actually make. Note that this needs to be an attractive number if you really want to find money. - Consider leasing the helicoptor from someone if it’s an option, so you don’t have the high upfront cost. - Search for a partner who already owns a helicoptor that you could split the revenues with. Once you have a reasonable plan, approach investors and/or banks and/or venture capitalists, depending. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/9 "2004-06-22T19:57:04Z")
I think there is a misconception here about federal grants. Despite what your friend’s cousin said, the federal grant system does not provide money for business startups. I would be willing to bet it was a loan from the Small Business Administration. Federal grants are for specific services, programs and research the government wishes to encourage from non-government entities. A private company may apply for a grant, but the money is always earmarked for a specific purpose, ie community development, environmental conservation, or scientific research. They are not going to just give you $50K to start a for-profit company. For more information, start at [http://www.grants.gov/Index](http://www.grants.gov/Index) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2004, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/10 "2004-06-22T23:44:51Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > I have my own opinions about the morality of getting free money from tax payers, There are agencies giving money to people who meet certain criteria that are set forth in the grants. No one is forcing the government to do this; it’s in the government’s self interest. Nothing immoral about it. Unless you mean this: > [@](#): > > especially money set aside for vets, minorities and women when you’re none of these And where did I say I was _trying_ to apply for money set aside for groups to which I don’t belong? The grant I found (which won’t work because of the $10,000 per student cap) requires that certain groups benefit from it. As I said, I am quite willing to provide that benefit. Indeed, it’s been a long-held dream of mine to teach underpriveledged people to fly and to provide a place for them in my business. I don’t object to the rest of your post, but I do resent an implication that I’m trying to do something immoral when I’m not. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, it comes down to two things: > a) your current upfront costs are too high. Find a way to reduce them, and > b) come up with a full plan, especially encompassing where you’ll get revenue You see, there’s the rub. I could reduce costs only by obtaining a cheaper aircraft for training, or by leasing an aircraft. I can get a 40-year-old Hughes 269A for $60,000; but some people have a problem flying an aircraft that old. It’s easier to get customers with a newer machine. As for leasing, that might cause a cash flow problem. Revenue would come once the operation was started. It would come excruciatingly slowly at first. If I had the money to afford a loan, I’d do it and avoid thinking about the grant process. > [@Fear Itself](#): > > I would be willing to bet it was a loan from the Small Business Administration. I did ask my friend if her cousin got a loan, or a grant. She said her cousin got the grant by using the Lesko book. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a5b964/32.png) [@Bill\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_H)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/11 "2004-06-23T00:14:45Z")
**Johnny L.A.** wrote > [@](#): > > And where did I say I was trying to apply for money set aside for groups to which I don’t belong? Well, there was this > [@](#): > > My friend is an ex-Army Black Hawk pilot. Maybe she could get a grant and we could go into business together? And this > [@](#): > > I believe that women and minorities make up less than 25% of the pilots in the U.S., and helicopter pilots are a minority in the flying community. The description also says “and employ”. If my friend moves back to the state, she could certainly be employed in the business. And this > [@](#): > > I should probably download the application and send it to my friend as well. Being a female vet, she may stand a better chance of winning it. See, the thing is, everything you’ve talked about and asked about here involves how to get free money from the government, as opposed to how to build a good business. And when you aren’t eligible for something you haven’t earned, you’re searching your mind for people that are, so you can get a piece through them. I hope you’re not serious when you say you don’t see ethical problems here. If you’re really serious about starting a business, you can do it. But you’ll need to redirect your attention completely towards getting revenue from customers, not getting undeserved veteran and minority benefits from the government. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2004, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-grant/251577/12 "2004-06-23T00:29:24Z")
**Bill H.** : I think you’re misinterpreting. In your quotes, you are ignoring that my friend would be elegible to receive a grant that is given to vets. I wouldn’t be receiving a grant. If she wanted to take me on as a partner (and it was her idea anyway), there is nothing wrong with that. If she got the grant and _didn’t_ want me as a partner, then I’m out of luck. My friend would be very happy to get a grant and start her own business. As it happens, she thinks I would make a good partner in it. I see no reason why I should not apply for a grant for which I’m elegible, and that she can apply for a grant for which she is elegible. It sounds to me as if you just don’t like grants at all. You are reading more into things than are there. > [@](#): > > If you’re really serious about starting a business, you can do it. But you’ll need to redirect your attention completely towards getting revenue from customers, not getting undeserved veteran and minority benefits from the government. Again, _I am not_ trying to get a grant I don’t deserve. You have to get that out of your head. I am only trying to find out if there are any grants that I _am_ elegible for. And if I find one my friend is elegible for, and if she wishes to persue it, then why shouldn’t I let her know about it? She wants to fly for a living as much as I do. If you have a problem with grants in general, please take it to Great Debates.