# How Do I Get Issued "Letters of Marque"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 14, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837 "2003-06-14T14:40:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/1 "2003-06-14T14:40:20Z")
I’ve heard about the big money that drug smugglers always seem to have, and I’d like some of it! I understand that long ago, the US congress would in effect legalize private citizens to patrol the high seas, and seize vesselsof the enemy! The so-called “letters of marque” are the US gov’s authorization for me (a “privateer”) to stop and seize vessels caufght violating US law! So, how do I become a PRIVATEER? Sounds like a dashing way to earn a living! Bust drug dealers, and keep the seized vessels! Anybody want to join my crew? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/2 "2003-06-14T14:50:41Z")
A number of international treaties made letters of marque illegal in the 19th century. If you found a country who would issue you such a document, all the _other_ seafaring countries would consider you a pirate and attempt to kill or imprison you. (And I belive the original letters of marque were issued against the commerce of particular nations; they were not generalized to non-national actors as if one was a bounty hunter. In order to even get such a document, you’d have to pick a specific country whose commerce you wanted to raid. (I would suggest Afghanistan and Mongolia, to be safe.) ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/3 "2003-06-14T15:14:28Z")
The big anti-privateer action was the Declaration of Paris in 1856. At that time, the U.S. declined to sign on, of course, but by the end if the 19th century, the U.S. had agreed to go along with the other nations and, in 1907, at the Hague Peace Conference, all the nations agreed that any armed merchant ship had to be classified as a warship–so the only way to carry out your plan would be to donate your ship to the Navy or Coast Guard. And, of course, you’re still faced with being hunted down as a pirate by the Brits, French, Russians, etc. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/4 "2003-06-14T18:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*Anybody want to join my crew? \*\* Not going to name your ship the _[Antelope](http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/barretts.html)_, are you? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/5 "2003-06-14T19:22:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chique \* > \*\*Not going to name your ship the _Antelope_, are you? \*\* If it’s the scummiest vessel you’ve ever seen, _run away screaming!_ ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/6 "2003-06-14T20:01:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chique \* > \*\*Not going to name your ship the _[Antelope](http://www.chebucto.ns.ca/~jacktar/barretts.html)_, are you? \*\* Forget privateering! Go the whole hog and become a [Pirate on the River Saskatchewan!](http://members.localnet.com/~tiberius/paddleclub/songs/pirate.html) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/7 "2003-06-14T20:33:08Z")
Blast you, tomndebb, you’ve ruined my dreams! I was going to volunteer for ralph’s crew and help him dispose of any captured contraband. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/8 "2003-06-14T21:32:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\*(And I believe the original letters of marque were issued against the commerce of particular nations; they were not generalized to non-national actors as if one was a bounty hunter.) \*\* That is certainly correct, historically. And yet it should be noted that at least one member of Congress, Representative Ron Paul (R-TX), has[proposed issuing letters of marque and reprisal for bounty hunting](http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2001/cr101001.htm)–in this case, to go after Osama bin Laden. I should add at once that Rep. Paul is, shall we say, outside of the ideological mainstream, and this proposal never stood any chance of passage. I’m also not sure that he understands the very point that we’re debating. He states that letters of marque were originally used “to combat piracy” (in other words, as a tool of law enforcement), but I don’t believe that was ever true; rather, as **tomndebb** states, they were used to authorize privateers to plunder enemy commerce in time of war. Just the same, I suppose they _could_ be issued against drug dealers, and the very fact the goal would be law enforcement rather than warfare _might_ mean that this would not be a violation of international law. So that’s your challenge, **ralph** : first persuade Congress that deputizing private individuals for maritime drug law enforcement is a good idea, and that “letters of marque and reprisal” are the appropriate tool for doing so, and _then_ convinvce the international community that this isn’t a violation of the Hague Convention. Shiver me timbers, it’s going to be an uphill battle. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2003, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/9 "2003-06-14T23:51:27Z")
One wonders, however, what country might have jurisdiction upon someone in international waters for acts committed in international waters. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/10 "2003-06-15T00:29:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranger \* > \*\*One wonders, however, what country might have jurisdiction upon someone in international waters for acts committed in international waters. \*\* IANAALL, but I’d guess for starters: A: The country of which the person acting is a citizen. B: The countries of which anyone hurt or otherwise damaged or incurring losses in a legit business as a result of such action are citizens. C: The countries in which the boarded/seized/destroyed vessel is flagged ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/11 "2003-06-15T00:36:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranger \* > \*\*One wonders, however, what country might have jurisdiction upon someone in international waters for acts committed in international waters. \*\* That has been discussed in this thread [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190721](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190721) and has been discussed in many others in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/12 "2003-06-15T00:47:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ranger \* > \*\*One wonders, however, what country might have jurisdiction upon someone in international waters for acts committed in international waters. \*\* Under Article 105 of the [URL [http://www.hri.org/docs/LOS/part7-1b.html](http://www.hri.org/docs/LOS/part7-1b.html)]1982 UN Convention on the law of the Sea: > [@](#): > > On the high seas, or in any other place outside the jurisdiction of any State, every State may seize a pirate ship or aircraft, or a ship or aircraft taken by piracy and under the control of pirates, and arrest the persons and seize the property on board. The courts of the State which carried out the seizure may decide upon the penalties to be imposed, and may also determine the action to be taken with regard to the ships, aircraft or property, subject to the rights of third parties acting in good faith. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/13 "2003-06-15T02:00:12Z")
In international waters, is it possible to have a vessel under the control of _no_ nation? Would the crew of this vessel then be able to act as if they had letters of marque and reprisal… as long as they stayed in international waters? And what would happen if they entered national waters? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/14 "2003-06-15T04:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Would the crew of this vessel then be able to act as if they had letters of marque and reprisal… A letter of marque (back in the days when nations recognized them) had to be issued by a recognized state in order to be valid. Anyone “acting as if they had letters of marque” are _de facto_ (and probably _de jure_) pirates and are open targets for all nations. The only way that one could _hope_ to get away with this would be to find some rogue nation (Sealand, anyone?) to issue actual letters of marque. Given that most nations would refuse to acknowledge such documents, you’d most likely still be hanged for piracy. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/15 "2003-06-15T04:54:57Z")
Yes, even if you got some country to issue you one your letter of marqee would be useless since no other country would recognize it. You could get Burma to issue you a licence to sell heroin and shoot whoever gets in your way, but no one outside of Burma would recognize that license. If you are engaging in piracy the fact that some country authorized you to do so doesn’t mean a thing. A ship that doesn’t fly a flag and answers to no country isn’t immune from international law. The US navy or coast guard doesn’t give you a pass just because you claim that you aren’t under US jurisdiction. In fact not flying a flag makes you more vulnerable to interference by various navies. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2003, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/16 "2003-06-15T05:13:01Z")
Of course, there still are plenty of pirates in the world. (Some of them are running Liberia, for example.) If someone were to go after them and then declare all or part of their income on some nation’s tax returns, I can’t see anyone becoming _too_ angry. Go after the right people and the CIA will fund your next expedition. “Yes, sir, I’m declaring $40,000 in booty. And it _was_ necessary for me to spend $2,500 on LAW\* rockets; those Columbian drug-runners are becoming bolder now that the opium harvest is in.” \*LAW rockets: 'Cause those who has them makes the laws. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2003, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-get-issued-letters-of-marque/181837/17 "2003-06-16T12:28:10Z")
I still think being a privateer is the way to go. Take the Carribean…that sea is crawling with drug ships. I’ll just go out and fire a shot across the bows, and stop the ship. Then we board it, and take the crew into custody…and bring the seized ship into Miami, and sellit at auction. I’ll fly a flag (the “jolly roger”), and fulfill my boyhood dreams of being a pirate. And, if the druggies resist, I’ll issue orders to HANG them by the yardam!