# How do I initiate a divorce as painless and as cheaply as possible? (Rambling marital problems) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 27, 2011, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954 "2011-10-27T11:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/41 "2011-10-27T15:15:27Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Weeeellllllll…let’s just say it’s not a trait unique to your husband and leave it at that. They don’t all stay like that. Sometimes one or two knock-down dragout fights are all that’s needed…after that he learns that you need to be listened to, just as he needs to be listened to. He doesn’t seem like a terrible guy, and if he could just learn… ---
**Author:** ![Spiff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiff/32/9852_2.png) [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/42 "2011-10-27T15:21:55Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I kind of feel it is “now or never” in **landing a man that makes me… happier** , if that is possible. I’m sorry to hear about your situation. I thinks it’s the rare married couple where one or both partners **doesn’t** feel the way you do now at sometime or other. I know I’ve been there. Others have focused on other aspects of your situation, but I’ll just mention the part I’ve quoted (and bolded) above. I don’t think it’s wise to pin your hopes of happiness on another person. Happiness ultimately comes from within. I think you sensed that when you added on the thought “if that is possible” – so I think you know this at some level. But it bears repeating: Don’t depend on finding the right person to make you happy. It’s a fools errand. Only you can make yourself happy. Finding another person to share that happiness with is wonderful, of course, but you must first find inner happiness anyway, so my advice is to get started on that. ---
**Author:** ![otternell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecc23a/32.png) [@otternell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/otternell)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/43 "2011-10-27T16:04:42Z")
And to go back to a great anecdote from the 7 Habits audio book (or something). If you want to feel the emotion of love, you must take the action of love. The action inspires the emotion. I know that every time I have felt like it would just be easier to live alone, I remember this concept, and behave more lovingly to him. Maybe I’m lucky in that he responds back lovingly also. But then I feel back to being in love with him. I found that anecdote, which sounds trite initially, to be actually very good advice. ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/44 "2011-10-27T16:06:23Z")
The part that jumped out at me is that you have been married four years and have a 3 1/2 year old. Did you get married because of the baby? Did you feel trapped into marrying him b/c of the pregnancy, did he feel trapped into marrying you for the same reason (or do you suspect it to be the case and feel insecure in the relationship because of it?). No judgement here, my wife and I had a 3 year old before we got around to tying the knot. It sounds like you and your husband have never had the time to just be husband and wife together. It’s been pretty much “Baby Baby Baby” since day one. How long did you date before getting hitched? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/45 "2011-10-27T17:17:42Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I know. But I would go for shared custody, with our son spending equal parts of the week with me and him. And I think we would both soon find other partners to help with finances (if only by sharing housing) and child care. > > Eta, I’m 43, my husband is 37. We’ve been married four years. Our son is three and a half. Look, no offense, but this board is fully of bright, bubbly, attractive twenty-somethings with no kids who couldn’t _buy_ a date. At 43, with a kid, the idea that you’d “soon find a partner” who wants to move in with you and support your kid is… well, optimistic, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/46 "2011-10-27T17:35:30Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > If he has that clueless “she’s not yelling at me or crying, so she must be tickled pink” think some guys do, he’s not going to realize how much of the time you’re unhappy unless you give him a pretty minute-by-minute accounting of it. Forgive me for hijacking, but this truth is so very irritating. WHY should I have to spell it out for them? It’s like finding what I call “bachelor habits” all over the place – clothes draped over a chair instead of put away, dishes piled in the sink, etc. WHY should I have to nag? IT’S PLAIN COMMON SENSE. No married male I know of does any of that, so I’m thinking either 1) they’ve been browbeaten within an inch of their lives by their spouses, or 2) their spouses are sick of the battle and end up cleaning it themselves, which in turn makes them more bitter (and yes, I have friends who fit that description). Add all this to having a toddler or two, and I can empathize with the OP. BTW, calling a halt to cleaning up after a spouse doesn’t solve anything. It just makes matters worse, from my experience. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/47 "2011-10-27T17:38:35Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I really don’t know _how_ to force my husband to take it all seriously. > > He takes pride in being “immune to blackmail” and he feels my complaints are just fleeting. When I don’t whine or complain, he sees no problem. And I don’t want to whine or complain more then 5 % of our time together. . . > [@Maastricht](#): > > . . . With my husband, it used to be natural from my side, but that feeling is gone. Instead I feel that he likes to take care of himself, and he expects me to take care of _my_self, and if there are mutual benefits, that is fine. . . There has been a lot of good discussion, but I want to add that this sounds like your husband is being withholding, here. The “immune to blackmail” comment especially sounds defensive and antagonistic. It sounds like you believe that a marriage requires intimacy, support, and caring or there’s just no point to it and your husband sees intimacy, support, and caring as trespassing on his personal boundaries. This is a big mismatch in expectations. I wouldn’t expect that to work itself out without councelling. The answer to Bob Ducca’s question may touch on one cause for him feeling like he needs to fight to maintain boundaries. There may be other things, too. It might be profitable for you to think that you BOTH deserve better. If nothing else, men in supportive marriages live longer and stay healthier. > [@Maastricht](#): > > . . . I pay all things related to the house and insurances, so, bills that can’t wait or go unpaid. > > He fills the joint account with a fixed amount that is slightly too little, which we use for groceries and small expenses. When the joint account is empty, and it always is before the month is over, I usually pay groceries and other household expenses out of my private account. . . I’d say this may benefit from financial planning, rather than councelling, but most money arguments are emotionally based. If there’s a mortgage, that split looks like you’re paying most of the bills, even before the joint account runs out. But that may not be the case or there may be a reason for it. Would he be more likely to see a financial advisor as neutral, compared to a marriage councellor? Does your family have a savings plan? A retirement plan? If not, that could be a wedge issue for getting financial advice. As other have said, this sounds like two different, but related issues. If you had to choose, which would you work on first or hardest, the personal intimacy issue or the logistical money/time/chores issue? Even if it’s the same issue underneath, there are two different facets that can be dealt with different ways. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/48 "2011-10-27T17:52:06Z")
> [@Edward\_The\_Head](#): > > Didn’t we just have a thread on this? I know I saw something on this in the last couple of weeks, but it’s something like people seem to think that they do the majority of the work around the house, with the kids, in the relationship, when if fact it really is most of the time a 50/50 split. What the other person doesn’t see is that there are plenty of things that get done that just go unnoticed by the other person. Not always, I assure you. My ex did neither jack nor shit. It is a constant amazement to me that my new boyfriend does _all this stuff_. ---
**Author:** ![Vihaga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Vihaga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vihaga)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/49 "2011-10-27T17:57:46Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Not always, I assure you. My ex did neither jack nor shit. It is a constant amazement to me that my new boyfriend does _all this stuff_. Yeah. Not everyone sees their spouse’s contributions unrealistically. I, for example, freely admit that my husband does more around the house than I do, especially since I got pregnant. I feel kind of bad about this and need to do something about it, but he really doesn’t seem to mind at all. ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/50 "2011-10-27T18:10:16Z")
> [@](#): > > No married male I know of does any of that, so I’m thinking either 1) they’ve been browbeaten within an inch of their lives by their spouses, or 2) their spouses are sick of the battle and end up cleaning it themselves, which in turn makes them more bitter (and yes, I have friends who fit that description). Or maybe, just maybe, some of us married guys are just, you know, nice guys with common sense and decency, that didn’t need to be browbeaten to pick up after themselves? I’ve also seen cases where the husband’s ‘willingness to do things around the house’ was in direct inverse proportion to the wife’s degree of expectation that ‘he should do more around the house’. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/51 "2011-10-27T18:11:17Z")
I’m going to go in completely different direction here - You have a toddler. If it’s anything like every other person I’ve known who had a kid, for the first few years the kid sucks up all the time and energy in a family. Husband and Wife become Mom and Dad - and don’t really have the time and resources to be Husband and Wife. IMHO you have mis-directed your dissatisfaction in your life in general at your husband - because you don’t currently “feel the love”, whereas you aren’t directing the dissatisfaction at the kid - because there you do “feel the love”. I’m not suggesting you blame the kid for your state - I’m simply saying you should recognize that the dynamic of having a very young child is more than likely responsible for how you feel. Your husband is simply a convenient target for your dissatisfaction. All of his imperfections are magnified in your current mind-state. Once again - the suggestion of counselling is in order. But you might have a better time selling it to your husband if you frame it differently - instead of “we need counselling because I’m dissatisfied with you!”, you could try “we need counselling because we are loosing track of our relationship, due to the dynamic of having the kid.” ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/52 "2011-10-27T18:26:11Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > Forgive me for hijacking, but this truth is so very irritating. > > WHY should I have to spell it out for them? > > It’s like finding what I call “bachelor habits” all over the place – clothes draped over a chair instead of put away, dishes piled in the sink, etc. WHY should I have to nag? IT’S PLAIN COMMON SENSE. No married male I know of does any of that, so I’m thinking either 1) they’ve been browbeaten within an inch of their lives by their spouses, or 2) their spouses are sick of the battle and end up cleaning it themselves, which in turn makes them more bitter (and yes, I have friends who fit that description). > > Add all this to having a toddler or two, and I can empathize with the OP. > > BTW, calling a halt to cleaning up after a spouse doesn’t solve anything. It just makes matters worse, from my experience. This triggered a peeve of mine. This is not really a male/female thing. Everyone has a different tolerance for things left out or around. Both male and female same sex roommates have the same conflicts. And more importantly, things you leave around make sense to you in some way (it is convient, it is temporary, or whatever) while somebody else’s stuff left around is just clutter. True story, I have been yelled at by my wife when she tripped over her own shoes because she thought they were mine for a second. Because just like most human behavior we cut our own actions much more slack then would for some else. ---
**Author:** ![Nutty\_Bunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/d07c76/32.png) [@Nutty\_Bunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nutty_Bunny)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/53 "2011-10-27T18:51:52Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > Private question - I assume you’re sleeping separately? If not, can you put him in a separate bedroom or move into one yourself? Do NOT do this (sorry Anaamika)! My ex-husband and I had separate bedrooms when we were having problems and that was the final nail in the coffin for our marriage. We thought it would help, but it had the opposite effect. If you’re disconnected now, sleeping in separate rooms like roommates will make it worse. I moved out a year and a half ago after trying date nights and counseling. I’m much happier now, but our 5 year old has been having behavioral problems ever since, but we’re good at co-parenting and are doing our best to help her deal with this. I still don’t regret leaving and I’m satisfied that we tried everything to fix it before we split. If you don’t try everything, you may have regrets. Good luck with whatever you decide. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Stilettos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/fbc32d/32.png) [@Red\_Stilettos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Stilettos)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/54 "2011-10-27T18:55:34Z")
> [@otternell](#): > > And to go back to a great anecdote from the 7 Habits audio book (or something). If you want to feel the emotion of love, you must take the action of love. The action inspires the emotion. > > I know that every time I have felt like it would just be easier to live alone, I remember this concept, and behave more lovingly to him. Maybe I’m lucky in that he responds back lovingly also. But then I feel back to being in love with him. > > I found that anecdote, which sounds trite initially, to be actually very good advice. I haven’t read that book, but I can second the idea. Any kind of stress in my life makes me feel like I’ve fallen out of love with my SO. However, that can be overcome by acting like I’m in love. It’s not immediate, but it does work. Very much the same idea as “You make your own happiness”. Also, I strongly recommend a husband- and child-free vacation. Even if it’s just a couple of nights in a local hotel. Hole up, watch whatever _you_ want on TV, order room service, sit by the pool, whatever. I think it will do you a world of good. And don’t worry that wanting it means your marriage is broken. Admitting that you need it and acting on it will keep your marriage intact. The happiest marriages in my family are couples who regularly spend time apart. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/55 "2011-10-27T19:08:11Z")
I don’t have time to read the whole thread right now, but one things about the OP strikes me - it’s all about you, **Maastricht** , and what you want, and nothing about what your son _needs._ You haven’t described an abusive relationship or anything like that; you just want more out of a relationship than you’re currently getting, it seems, but you decided to have a kid with this guy - that is a big commitment, and breaking it because things aren’t as fun as you think they should be doesn’t sound like the answer to me. Sorry, dear. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/56 "2011-10-27T19:16:29Z")
If he won’t got to marital counseling with you, go alone. But for heaven’s sake (and your boy’s sake) please get some professional help before you decide to make such a big decision. It could be depression, or it could be something you could work on together, but a bunch of strangers on an internet message board cannot give you the kind of personal advice you need. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/57 "2011-10-27T19:25:41Z")
But it’s good you’re asking for help, even if you’re starting here. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/58 "2011-10-27T19:29:52Z")
You have a nice house, a husband, a toddler, a job. I’m sorry. You sound spoiled right now. I don’t know what else to say except _talk_ to your husband. You don’t sound like a treat to live with, either. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![kiz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7feea3/32.png) [@kiz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kiz)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/59 "2011-10-27T19:35:09Z")
> [@DragonAsh](#): > > Or maybe, just maybe, some of us married guys are just, you know, nice guys with common sense and decency, that didn’t need to be browbeaten to pick up after themselves? That too. I do know a few husbands who aptly fit that description. In my experience, however, they’re far and few between. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954/60 "2011-10-27T19:35:27Z")
> [@kiz](#): > > Forgive me for hijacking, but this truth is so very irritating. > > WHY should I have to spell it out for them? Because [del]they[/del] WE are not telepathic. “He should be sensitive enough to know how I feel without my having to tell him” is a load of crap. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-initiate-a-divorce-as-painless-and-as-cheaply-as-possible-rambling-marital-problems/600954.md?page=4)