# How do I professionally phrase "shut up and do what I'm hiring you to do"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 1, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300 "2010-02-01T23:09:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/61 "2010-02-04T05:46:47Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > Then your quarrel is with the RAC site in general, **astro** , not with me. I already pay high-percentage bonuses to those whose bids are far below expectations; beyond that, I’m not sure what you’d want me to do. As I’ve pointed out and you’ve repeated yourself, they set their own prices, so it seems to me that the only way I could avoid exploiting these poor beleaguered souls would be by not hiring them at all, instead paying substantially more to a fellow prosperous-countryman who quite probably needs it less, thus leaving people like that Bangladeshi man with $0 instead of $20. I really don’t see where that would give me the moral high ground. > > As for the “silly and bad form” part, yes, silly me, I expect people who voluntarily contract business with me at a self-determined compensatory rate to actually live up to their end of a deal that was clearly and thoroughly explained to them before they ever decided to bid on it in the first place. What a typical arrogant and exploitative American capitalist I must be, but again, I’m not really seeing a reasonable alternative, unless you’re saying that **PatriotGrrrl** ’s sarcastic comment about not expecting poor people to be able to get anything right has merit. The bottom line is that it’s really just the notion of paying someone a beggars wage because you can, and then fussing that they are not sufficiently professional and detail oriented. It’s an odd combo. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/62 "2010-02-04T05:59:46Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > I’d believe that if I didn’t keep (eventually) finding people like the Bangladeshi man from my above. Found a few of 'em, too; 28 and counting thus far. Sometimes they charge a bit more than the ones who ignore me, sometimes not – the Bangladeshi man sure as hell didn’t – but price doesn’t seem to be the deciding factor. As far as I can tell, it’s pretty much luck of the draw…I direct you to **Athena** ’s lament in post #5. Is there any reason you don’t try contacting your previous satisfactory suppliers first? Just curious, as I’m on the other side of that kind of business and my satisfied customers now contact me directly. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/63 "2010-02-04T06:39:01Z")
[QUOTE=Nava] Is there any reason you don’t try contacting your previous satisfactory suppliers first? Just curious, as I’m on the other side of that kind of business and my satisfied customers now contact me directly. [/QUOTE] See my reply to **crazyjoe** in [post #42](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12070016&postcount=42), but in short, the stuff I want done is spread across a large number of technologies, and it’s not consistent in nature even within the same program or language; the projects truly are one-offs. I do use the same people whenever I can, but most of the time it’s just not possible. > [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > From reading the response so far, I gather that RAC and ODesk are not held in high regard. In general, though, any kind of technician or professional doesn’t like being told in excruciating detail how to do what they’re supposed to do. You wouldn’t tell a mechanic which wrench to use in fixing your car; I imagine any mechanic worth his salt would find another job pronto if the service manager said, “Our goal is complete customer satisfaction, so now you have to ask the customer how they think you should fix his car, and then do that, and only that”. You wouldn’t normally ask that of a mechanic, no, and certainly some would resent being asked. However, the analogous situation to what I’m actually doing would be if I brought my car to all the mechanics in town and asked “how much would you charge me to fix my car using only a 3/8 socket wrench?”. Most of them would likely refuse, and I’d bear them no ill will for doing so. But if some of them did quote me prices, and I accepted one of them, and that mechanic proceeded to fix my car with whatever wrench he felt like using…well, I’d complain about him, too. > [@](#): > > That said, you’re certainly not out of line in requiring that a piece of code has to work and play well with some other component of your system, but if you don’t adequately explain and describe this circumstance, it’s going to be pretty difficult for the coder to work up appropriate test cases. You’re right, which is why I determine beforehand a methodology that, if followed as specified, will work properly with the other components of my system, so that the coder doesn’t need to work up appropriate test cases, and I in turn don’t have to provide lengthy explanations of every aspect of every component of every process within my system that might conceivably affect any possible solution the coder might come up with. If it ultimately turns out I don’t know what I’m talking about (I do) and the program doesn’t work in my system (they all have), then that’s not the coder’s problem; they gave me what I asked for and I’ll pay them accordingly. A few posters have opined that the sample description I posted was overly lengthy and detailed, but as true as that may be, the explanation for WHY my requirements are what they are for any given project would increase this length and complexity tenfold, whereas simply following the procedure I outline in the project description (as they agreed to do when they bid on the contract in the first place) saves both me and the coder a great deal of time. If my requirement that the coder use a specific method is so offensive to their sense of professionalism that they cannot bear to abide by it, then _they don’t have to bid on the contract_, at which point my outrageous expectations don’t affect them one whit. If they choose to do so anyway, no one yet has given me a rational reason why I’m out of line in expecting them to provide the deliverables they contracted for. [QUOTE=astro] The bottom line is that it’s really just the notion of paying someone a beggars wage because you can, and then fussing that they are not sufficiently professional and detail oriented. It’s an odd combo. [/QUOTE] So, the “poor people are necessarily incompetent” thing then. Given the numerous counterexamples I’ve had the pleasure of working with, I’ll still beg to disagree. As an aside, I didn’t intend to become defensive in this thread, but being attacked for expecting people to accurately complete work they not only voluntarily took on but named their own price for completing — or, for that matter, for having the temerity to make the request in the first place, as if requiring a particular methodology is some kind of ghastly faux-pas or unforgiveable insult to people who are more than free not to bid on my project at all — is absolutely ridiculous, and I’m not going to let it pass without comment. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/64 "2010-02-04T07:05:09Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > So, the “poor people are necessarily incompetent” thing then. Given the numerous counterexamples I’ve had the pleasure of working with, I’ll still beg to disagree. Actually, on review, this is an unfair summary of **astro** ’s post. I apologize. Revised for accuracy: > [@](#): > > So, the “[del]poor people[/del] _people who request less on Rent-A-Coder than a typical first-world salary for someone with the skills to do a comparable job_ are necessarily incompetent” thing then. Given the numerous counterexamples I’ve had the pleasure of working with, I’ll still beg to disagree. The overall point still stands. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/65 "2010-02-04T08:15:10Z")
It seems to me that this thread is a textbook example of what Roland is talking about. Instead of providing the answer to his carefully worded OP, most people are suggesting alternatives. “Oh, he doesn’t really want what he thinks he wants, he actually wants something else entirely, which I shall helpfully offer to him.” ---
**Author:** ![PatriotGrrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9dc877/32.png) [@PatriotGrrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotGrrrl)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/66 "2010-02-04T09:53:24Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > However, the analogous situation to what I’m actually doing would be if I brought my car to all the mechanics in town and asked “how much would you charge me to fix my car using only a 3/8 socket wrench?”. Most of them would likely refuse, and I’d bear them no ill will for doing so. But if some of them did quote me prices, and I accepted one of them, and that mechanic proceeded to fix my car with whatever wrench he felt like using…well, I’d complain about him, too. I’d say it’s more like bringing a restored classic car with a damaged wiring harness to a mechanic and telling him that you want the entire damaged wire replaced with a specific size and color of wire so it matches the original and looks neat. If he then proceeds to splice in a different color wire, that’s not acceptable. This is a job that has a special requirement, beyond just “make the car run”. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/67 "2010-02-04T10:21:46Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > See my reply to **crazyjoe** in [post #42](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12070016&postcount=42), but in short, the stuff I want done is spread across a large number of technologies, and it’s not consistent in nature even within the same program or language; the projects truly are one-offs. I do use the same people whenever I can, but most of the time it’s just not possible. Ah, I see, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/68 "2010-02-04T14:25:25Z")
Good luck in your endeavors, Roland. You don’t seem to understand the situation you’re in, or what everyone is telling you. In short, many of the people on those sites do not have simple reading comprehension skills, because it is exactly what astro and I have described, a marketplace for very cheap labor. The problem with people who have no reading comprehension skills is that YOU CAN’T WRITE MORE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS for them because they don’t have reading comprehension skills. You will have to filter them out manually, just as you’re doing now, because, as you have discovered, there are a few gems among the millions of stones out there. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/69 "2010-02-04T15:07:10Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t seem to understand the situation you’re in, or what everyone is telling you. Really? Because I agree with Roland and I think others have to. I think your theory that Roland isn’t paying enough to expect people to be literate is a little iffy. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/70 "2010-02-04T16:03:29Z")
Yes, but see, I have the evidence on my side that shows I am right. He is constantly running into this problem, having to wade endlessly through the stream of ignoramuses in order to find the people who accomplish what he needs. I’ve outlined the reasons why the people he wants are hard to find. If I’m not mistaken, you’re a trained officer in a correctional facility. Let’s say you needed to have some light work done there. You ask for bids, and mention that there are a lot of security protocols that need to be followed. Do you trust the guys who bid out at minimum wage? Do you expect to have to do a lot of due dilligence to figure out which of these bids is going to work out? Roland is frustrated because he is not doing proper due dilligence up front and is getting a lot of minimum wage types who can crank out code but can’t really follow directions. Just like you might expect a minimum wage janitor would be able to sweep floors but might forget and leave a door unlocked at the prison. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/71 "2010-02-04T16:27:35Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Good luck in your endeavors, Roland. You don’t seem to understand the situation you’re in, or what everyone is telling you. In short, many of the people on those sites do not have simple reading comprehension skills, because it is exactly what astro and I have described, a marketplace for very cheap labor. > > The problem with people who have no reading comprehension skills is that YOU CAN’T WRITE MORE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS for them because they don’t have reading comprehension skills. You will have to filter them out manually, just as you’re doing now, because, as you have discovered, there are a few gems among the millions of stones out there. I don’t know why you think I don’t understand all of that. I acknowledged from the get-go that that’s pretty much the source of my problem – writing specific instructions doesn’t work, because they get ignored. I’m not looking for a way to “WRITE MORE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS” to solve my problem. Writing specific instructions obviously doesn’t work, hence the reason I started the thread. What I’m looking for, as I’ve repeated in about half of my posts thus far, is, well, this: > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > What I’m looking for here is a bit of language that I can put at the beginning of each bid request that (metaphorically) says in bold flashing letters “DO NOT IGNORE ME”, while also NOT saying “I am a huge flaming asshole who will disapprove of anything you could possibly give me” (because I’m not and I won’t). > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > What I’m looking for in this thread, besides an opportunity to vent my frustration (thanks for reading), is a well-phrased piece of boilerplate to add to each project description that states, as professionally yet unambiguously as possible, the following sentiment. > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > The only thing I’m looking for here is something I can write to discourage the people who can’t be bothered to read the description from bidding in the first place > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > **Rumor** , that’s a very good start, thanks. I’m aware that I need to be more punchy up front; a way to do that effectively is exactly what I’m hoping to get out of this thread. > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > **Dio** , you’re exactly right; that’s what I’m hoping to be able to put in so many words. So, when you say this: [QUOTE=crazyjoe] Yes, but see, I have the evidence on my side that shows I am right. He is constantly running into this problem, having to wade endlessly through the stream of ignoramuses in order to find the people who accomplish what he needs. I’ve outlined the reasons why the people he wants are hard to find. [/QUOTE] …you’re absolutely correct that you have evidence that shows you are right about something that I not only already conceded, but was indeed the entire reason I started the thread in the first place. I _know_ that the problems I’m having with separating the wheat from the chaff are inherent in trying to give written instructions to people with reading comprehension issues. That, for the sixth time now, is why I want something that’s short, sweet and to the point, that I can say up-front instead of jumping into detailed specifications that will get ignored anyway. I’m grateful for the advice of the many posters — **Athena** , **Rumor\_Watkins** , **Dio** , **fubbleskag** , **ZipperJJ** , **Quercus** , and others — who’ve offered constructive advice to that end. You, on the other hand, seem to be informing me that I have the problem I have, in a thread I started to ask for advice on how to solve it, and calling me obtuse for not understanding that I have it. ---
**Author:** ![redtail23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3e96dc/32.png) [@redtail23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/redtail23)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/72 "2010-02-04T16:44:20Z")
> [@crazyjoe](#): > > Good luck in your endeavors, Roland. You don’t seem to understand the situation you’re in, or what everyone is telling you. In short, many of the people on those sites do not have simple reading comprehension skills, because it is exactly what astro and I have described, a marketplace for very cheap labor. > > The problem with people who have no reading comprehension skills is that YOU CAN’T WRITE MORE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS for them because they don’t have reading comprehension skills. You will have to filter them out manually, just as you’re doing now, because, as you have discovered, there are a few gems among the millions of stones out there. I would agree with this in part, but your premise is highly flawed. It is, in fact, damn near impossible to get people with reading comprehension problems to read and follow instructions, short of walking them through each step yourself. That, however, has little or nothing to do with where **Roland** is posting his requests. I have the very same problem, constantly, in dealing with the highly paid professionals at my workplace. So do my co-workers. This issue has been made much worse by the Crackberries & etc. Athena mentioned having the very same problem in one of her posts. I was chatting about this thread with the fam last night. My SO mentioned the lengthy, very detailed email she had sent her brother once, in regards to their mother’s health and financial issues. As far as she could tell in the next conversation they had, he’d read the first three lines and that’s all. He’s the vice-president of a bank. And, as has been mentioned a couple of times, several posters in this thread exhibit the very same types of behaviour. It is not an inability to read, it’s a complete, often intentional (IMO) refusal to read ALL of what’s been written, and/or to accept the actual meaning of what is read rather than replacing it with what the reader wants to hear. I actually find this thread very interesting, mostly because it’s fascinating to see the “reasoning” that some of you have come up with to blame **Roland Orzibal** for the failures of other people, whom you don’t even know, and in some cases, to justify your own lack of reading comprehension. ---
**Author:** ![crazyjoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f14d63/32.png) [@crazyjoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazyjoe)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/73 "2010-02-04T18:19:15Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > I don’t know why you think I don’t understand all of that. I acknowledged from the get-go that that’s pretty much the source of my problem – writing specific instructions doesn’t work, because they get ignored. I’m not looking for a way to “WRITE MORE SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS” to solve my problem. Writing specific instructions obviously doesn’t work, hence the reason I started the thread. What I’m looking for, as I’ve repeated in about half of my posts thus far, is, well, this: > > –snip– > > That, for the sixth time now, is why I want something that’s short, sweet and to the point, that I can say up-front instead of jumping into detailed specifications that will get ignored anyway. So, you don’t want to try to write something that people without reading comprehension will understand, you just want to write something ELSE that people without reading comprehension will understand. You know the definition of insanity, right? > [@](#): > > I’m grateful for the advice of the many posters — **Athena** , **Rumor\_Watkins** , **Dio** , **fubbleskag** , **ZipperJJ** , **Quercus** , and others — who’ve offered constructive advice to that end. You, on the other hand, seem to be informing me that I have the problem I have, in a thread I started to ask for advice on how to solve it, and calling me obtuse for not understanding that I have it. I’m posting in this thread to try to explain to you the futility of what you’e doing. In order to consistently accomplish what you want, you will have to spend enough time on it so that you could have effectivley just done it yourself, which you say you _could_ do in many cases, but that you don’t have time to do. ---
**Author:** ![LiveOnAPlane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@LiveOnAPlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LiveOnAPlane)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/74 "2010-02-04T18:34:00Z")
\*\*Roland Orzabal \*\*, I am sorry that you asked what, to me, was a pretty straightforward question and then had it spin out into a spaghetti-fest. I see that you did get some good advice from some of the posts. If it helps any, the problem is not just on the lower end. When I worked for Oracle, I saw the same thing with regularity. It wasn’t a majority of the time, but it was not all that unusual to run across the occasional on-site consultant (for which the client was paying much $$) to just seem to not comprehend that the client wanted it done in a specific way. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2010, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/75 "2010-02-04T21:41:11Z")
> [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > If my requirement that the coder use a specific method is so offensive to their sense of professionalism that they cannot bear to abide by it, then _they don’t have to bid on the contract_, at which point my outrageous expectations don’t affect them one whit. If they choose to do so anyway, no one yet has given me a rational reason why I’m out of line in expecting them to provide the deliverables they contracted for. I don’t want to give the impression that I don’t think you should be able to dictate matters like the language to be used or the OS on which the component is to run. But beyond that, suppose that instead of saying “do it this way”, you recast that requirement in terms of how the component has to interface with the rest of the system, describing the relationships in an unambiguous way. This would be a lot more palatable to the contractor and would presumably result in a better component for you. Barring possible architectural considerations, which I doubt are at issue here, form would follow function. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/76 "2010-02-05T00:33:17Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t want to give the impression that I don’t think you should be able to dictate matters like the language to be used or the OS on which the component is to run. But beyond that, suppose that instead of saying “do it this way”, you recast that requirement in terms of how the component has to interface with the rest of the system, describing the relationships in an unambiguous way. This would be a lot more palatable to the contractor and would presumably result in a better component for you. Barring possible architectural considerations, which I doubt are at issue here, form would follow function. I doubt that would work. Giving a broader description of how the system as a whole worked in order to explain why the project needed to be done in a certain way would increase the word count of the description. And the problem appears to be that some people aren’t reading the existing description - making it longer is not going to make them change. They’ll continue to glance it over and figure they’ve got the main point without bothering to read the details. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/77 "2010-02-05T04:30:48Z")
> [@redtail23](#): > > And, as has been mentioned a couple of times, several posters in this thread exhibit the very same types of behaviour. > > It is not an inability to read, it’s a complete, often intentional (IMO) refusal to read ALL of what’s been written, and/or to accept the actual meaning of what is read rather than replacing it with what the reader wants to hear. > > I actually find this thread very interesting, mostly because it’s fascinating to see the “reasoning” that some of you have come up with to blame **Roland Orzibal** for the failures of other people, whom you don’t even know, and in some cases, to justify your own lack of reading comprehension. I think most people read his post and understand his points, it’s simply that his complaints have to be weighed against the context that he is (by choice since he does not want to pay more than an absolute rock bottom price) fishing in a pond of 3rd tier talent filled with people whose English literacy is questionable. Looking for the magic instruction words that will bridge this gap and prevent the false starts he has experienced is (IMO) silly, bordering on foolish, given the real world limitations of the low cost, primarly third world, ESOL labor supply he is insisting on using. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/78 "2010-02-05T06:44:15Z")
> [@astro](#): > > I think most people read his post and understand his points, it’s simply that his complaints have to be weighed against the context that he is (by choice since he does not want to pay more than an absolute rock bottom price) fishing in a pond of 3rd tier talent filled with people whose English literacy is questionable. Looking for the magic instruction words that will bridge this gap and prevent the false starts he has experienced is (IMO) silly, bordering on foolish, given the real world limitations of the low cost, primarly third world, ESOL labor supply he is insisting on using. First things first, who said I was unwilling to pay anything but “rock bottom price”? I pay what the person asks to be paid, no more, no less (actually, never less but sometimes more, considering I often pay bonuses). I trust you’re aware of how a bidding process works? I also don’t always select the lowest bidder, and even if I did, I still haven’t gotten an answer as to why it’s unreasonable to ask that someone do what they agreed to do at the price they named to do it. Second, I’m not looking for “magic words” that will immediately eliminate all traces of the problem I’m having. According to your post I’ve quoted here, you’ve read my posts and understand my points, but I think this one might benefit from a quick re-read: > [@Roland\_Orzabal](#): > > What I’m looking for here is a bit of language that I can put at the beginning of each bid request that (metaphorically) says in bold flashing letters “DO NOT IGNORE ME”, while also NOT saying “I am a huge flaming asshole who will disapprove of anything you could possibly give me” (because I’m not and I won’t). **It won’t solve the problem entirely, I know, but if it got even one bidder to say “huh, maybe I should actually read the project requirements”, it’d be worthwhile.** (Bolding mine. Er, mine _now_, not mine originally. You know what I mean.) If you’re going to mischaracterize my posts to cast me as an idiot, best not to do so by ascribing to me an idea I specifically denounced. As for the “silliness” of my requesting advice on this at all, I appreciate the compliment to my writing skills implied in the apparent belief that there’s absolutely no way I could improve the clarity and effectivess of my written requirements in any fashion, but even an arrogant, exploitative software buyer such as myself isn’t egomaniacal enough to believe that the collective wit of everyone at the Dope couldn’t brush it up a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/79 "2010-02-05T07:20:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I doubt that would work. Giving a broader description of how the system as a whole worked in order to explain why the project needed to be done in a certain way would increase the word count of the description. And the problem appears to be that some people aren’t reading the existing description - making it longer is not going to make them change. They’ll continue to glance it over and figure they’ve got the main point without bothering to read the details. You’re probably right at that, but I don’t mean that the OP should necessarily describe the whole system. Just the area of it in which the component is supposed to run. I think an analogous situation would be a particular conveyor belt in a factory with its various appurtenances. The person designing the machine would need to know where the workers will sit or stand, where the widgets arrive on the conveyor, etc., but not necessarily the operation of the entire factory. ---
**Author:** ![Roland\_Orzabal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c2a13f/32.png) [@Roland\_Orzabal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roland_Orzabal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2010, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300/80 "2010-02-05T07:30:22Z")
You’re not wrong, **Spectre** , but in my case, the factory engineer has already drafted a detailed set of plans for the machine that takes those factors into account, and the owner is hiring someone with the mechanical skills and tools to put it together exactly as designed. The role of the contractor, then, is not designer but builder. As others have pointed out (and I agree), this is a nonstandard role for a software developer to be asked to take on, whereas it might be less so for, say, a machinist or construction contractor. Where I disagree, though, is that I don’t believe that automatically renders the request invalid, nor do I believe that making it is any sort of insult to the coder’s intelligence or skill. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-professionally-phrase-shut-up-and-do-what-im-hiring-you-to-do/527300.md?page=5)