# How do I respond to this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 30, 2015, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913 "2015-06-30T22:36:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/21 "2015-07-01T08:15:19Z")
> **[Southern strategy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy)** > > In American politics, the Southern strategy was a Republican Party electoral strategy to increase political support among white voters in the South by appealing to racism against African Americans. As the civil rights movement and dismantling of Jim Crow laws in the 1950s and 1960s visibly deepened existing racial tensions in much of the Southern United States, Republican politicians such as presidential candidate Richard Nixon and Senator Barry Goldwater developed strategies that succes The phra... ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/22 "2015-07-01T09:20:03Z")
You might point that by their logic, Saddam Husein was also a nominal Republican (he called his main palace in Baghdad the Republican Palace.) ---
**Author:** ![davida03801](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5e925/32.png) [@davida03801](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davida03801)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/23 "2015-07-01T10:37:45Z")
The parties have not changed much, the attitudes of voters have. The parties are mostly the same now as 100 to 150 years ago. Republicans basically for individual liberty and responsibility, and the democrats basically for imposed solutions from the overloads above. True 150 years ago, true now. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/24 "2015-07-01T11:19:28Z")
Republicans are most definitely not for individual liberty. I mean, come on! ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/25 "2015-07-01T11:31:25Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And? Have you looked around today? Or in the last 40 or 50 years? Why do all the Democrats-are-the-real-racists people want to stop history at 1960-something? I wonder…what could it be… But that’s part of the issue. Somehow, the Republican efforts during the 1800 and the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s have been ignored, causing Blacks to vote for Democrats in ridiculous numbers. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/26 "2015-07-01T11:42:25Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that’s part of the issue. Somehow, the Republican efforts during the 1800 and the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s have been ignored, causing Blacks to vote for Democrats in ridiculous numbers. They’re not ignored, they’re celebrated – the Democrats used to be the enemy of black people, while the Republicans were their defenders. But since the 50s and 60s, the parties have switched roles, at least in the minds of many/most black Americans, and they feel that the modern Democratic party has picked up Lincoln’s mantle as an advocate for ending various forms of unequal and unfair treatment of black people. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/27 "2015-07-01T11:47:08Z")
Bombard them back with stats and facts about the Whig Party. > [@](#): > > Throughout history, Whigs have traditionally stood for representative government, individual liberty, social and economic progress, modernization, public education, a vibrant legislative branch, and ongoing cooperation between the private and public sectors. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/28 "2015-07-01T11:49:20Z")
I can go to a restaurant for years and enjoy it, get good service and pay a reasonable price for food. However, if that restaurant changes management (either suddenly or through gradual attrition) and it no longer offers the same dining experience, then I have no obligation to continue to patronize them. History does not trump current experience. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/29 "2015-07-01T11:53:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’re not ignored, they’re celebrated – the Democrats used to be the enemy of black people, while the Republicans were their defenders. But since the 50s and 60s, the parties have switched roles, at least in the minds of many/most black Americans, and they feel that the modern Democratic party has picked up Lincoln’s mantle as an advocate for ending various forms of unequal and unfair treatment of black people. That’s not remotely true for the average voter, and even less true for the average black voter, who tends to be less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name. They are simply ignorant of the facts presented in the OP. And any black who has the gumption and temerity to vote for an “R” candidate is quickly labeled as an Uncle Tom or some such. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/30 "2015-07-01T12:08:13Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s not remotely true for the average voter, and even less true for the average black voter, who tends to be less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name. I believe you are wrong about “the average black voter”, and I have seen no reason to believe they are less informed than other voters on average. On issues related to Civil Rights history, in my experience black voters are better informed, on average, then other voters. > [@](#): > > They are simply ignorant of the facts presented in the OP. I see no reason to believe this is true in general. In fact, when Rand Paul tried to do this at a get together with black students, he was laughed at – they were well aware of the history of black people’s rights in the US, including which party was on which side at various times. Why should voters give more (or equal) weight to the position of the parties in the 1800s than their positions in recent decades and today? It seems very obvious to me that recent political history will be a lot more important to voters than distant-past political history. > [@](#): > > And any black who has the gumption and temerity to vote for an “R” candidate is quickly labeled as an Uncle Tom or some such. As opposed to “less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name” – is “Uncle Tom or some such” better or worse? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/31 "2015-07-01T12:36:15Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s not remotely true for the average voter, and even less true for the average black voter, who tends to be less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name. They are simply ignorant of the facts presented in the OP. And any black who has the gumption and temerity to vote for an “R” candidate is quickly labeled as an Uncle Tom or some such. If anyone wonders why Republicans are becoming the party of the past, and why they struggle so desperately with nonwhites, just look at this post. Well, okay it’s probably also the systematic way that Republican policies work to their disadvantage, the lengths Republicans go to disenfrachise them, and the obvious comfort that racists enjoy in the Republican party. The OP is really just an observation about willful stupidity regarding conservative politics in America. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/32 "2015-07-01T12:36:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You ask them, “Republicans used to be the good guys. What happened to you?” Yep. Might also ask what the prospects are for getting another Republican House Speaker like [Tom Reed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Brackett_Reed) (pro-civil rights, pro-voting rights, anti-imperialist, broke up obstructionist practices in the House, etc.). I’d vote for that kind of Republican. Too bad none ever show up on my ballot. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/33 "2015-07-01T12:38:02Z")
‘Why won’t you uneducated, uninformed, ignorant, reflexive-D/skin-color-voting minorities vote for us?’ ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/34 "2015-07-01T12:41:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But that’s part of the issue. Somehow, the Republican efforts during the 1800 and the civil rights movement of the '50s and '60s have been ignored You’re suggesting the people should vote for Republicans today because Abraham Lincoln did something 150 years ago? When they vote on the policies promoted by the candidates today, they’re ‘ignorant’ or voting for skin color. What policies are Republicans promoting today that benefit Black Americans? Is it the cutting of Food Stamps, or cutting taxes for ‘job creators’, increasing taxes on the poor so they have ‘skin in the game’? How about cutting HHS and Education spending while boosting Agriculture and Defense? I can’t understand why Black Americans aren’t keen to support those policies, I mean Republicans in the 1800’s were anti-Slavery, isn’t that enough? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/35 "2015-07-01T13:22:43Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s not remotely true for the average voter, and even less true for the average black voter, who tends to be less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name. They are simply ignorant of the facts presented in the OP. And any black who has the gumption and temerity to vote for an “R” candidate is quickly labeled as an Uncle Tom or some such. I’m not black. I don’t speak for blacks or stand for blacks. But when stuff like this comes out of a white Republican’s mouth, what in the world makes you think minorities will vote for Republicans? You think black people are less smart, less educated, less informed, and apt to vote for skin color. (How funny is that, since most of the options we get are old white men?) I wonder what you think about Asians. Are they naturally good at math? Or maybe Indians? Maybe we all get arranged marriages. Not to mention all of the lovely comments about rape that keep coming out of Republicans’ mouths, turning away women. There’s a reason minorities are leaving your parties in droves. Even your biggest minority representative - Bobby Jindal - is totes crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/36 "2015-07-01T13:41:42Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Any ideas? In my many years, I have learned that human beings are so constructed that political beliefs are primarily Firmly Held and are not subject to factual influence. As the saying goes, we are “born this way”. Instead, people engage in confirmation bias to construct arguments to support their Firmly Held political beliefs. Anyone who has spent time on the SDMB would find support for this notion. So, what to do about it when encountered IRL? You can’t convince them - this it true for both sides, by the way. So, don’t beat your head against that wall trying to change their minds, don’t let their passion raise your blood pressure - just suggest that you disagree and that they shouldn’t waste their time trying to change YOUR mind, or letting their blood pressure rise. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/37 "2015-07-01T13:56:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I believe you are wrong about “the average black voter”, and I have seen no reason to believe they are less informed than other voters on average. On issues related to Civil Rights history, in my experience black voters are better informed, on average, then other voters. Perhaps I’m wrong, but it is my understanding that blacks, in general, have less education than the general populace and that knowledge of history would align with that. Are you of the mind that that is that not the case? If so, can you offer any evidence? > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I see no reason to believe this is true in general. In fact, when Rand Paul tried to do this at a get together with black students, he was laughed at – they were well aware of the history of black people’s rights in the US, including which party was on which side at various times. Come on…a self-selected group of black college students who are interested enough to attend a Rand Paul discussion hardly constitute the “average black voter”. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Why should voters give more (or equal) weight to the position of the parties in the 1800s than their positions in recent decades and today? It seems very obvious to me that recent political history will be a lot more important to voters than distant-past political history. I agree with this completely and have said nothing to contradict with it. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > As opposed to “less educated, less informed and more apt to reflexively vote for skin color or anyone that has a “D” next to his name” – is “Uncle Tom or some such” better or worse? You can try to deflect my point, but what have I said that is incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/38 "2015-07-01T13:57:32Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > If anyone wonders why Republicans are becoming the party of the past, and why they struggle so desperately with nonwhites, just look at this post. Well, okay it’s probably also the systematic way that Republican policies work to their disadvantage, the lengths Republicans go to disenfrachise them, and the obvious comfort that racists enjoy in the Republican party. > > The OP is really just an observation about willful stupidity regarding conservative politics in America. Perhaps you’d like to try critiquing the substance of what I’ve said. Let me help you. Start with “You’re right, magellan01,…” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/39 "2015-07-01T13:59:29Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > If they wanted to, the numbers there is that 61% of House Democrats voted for the 1964 Civil Rights Act and 93% of House Republicans, so that probably wouldn’t help his argument much. 80% of House Republicans. But the point is valid. > [@](#): > > The original House version: > > ``` > Democratic Party: 152–96 (61–39%) > Republican Party: 138–34 (80–20%) > > ``` > > Cloture in the Senate: > > ``` > Democratic Party: 44–23 (66–34%) > Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%) > > ``` > > The Senate version: > > ``` > Democratic Party: 46–21 (69–31%) > Republican Party: 27–6 (82–18%) > > ``` > > The Senate version, voted on by the House: > > ``` > Democratic Party: 153–91 (63–37%) > Republican Party: 136–35 (80–20%) > > ``` It’s certainly true that the Democrats took the blame for the CRA, though. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913/40 "2015-07-01T14:04:10Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > You’re suggesting the people should vote for Republicans today because Abraham Lincoln did something 150 years ago? No. Not at all. Only that they give the Republican part credit for reality. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > When they vote on the policies promoted by the candidates today, they’re ‘ignorant’ or voting for skin color. Many of them do no squat about policies. They know that the candidate is Black and/or there is a “D” next to his name. > [@Cheesesteak](#): > > What policies are Republicans promoting today that benefit Black Americans? Is it the cutting of Food Stamps, or cutting taxes for ‘job creators’, increasing taxes on the poor so they have ‘skin in the game’? How about cutting HHS and Education spending while boosting Agriculture and Defense? How about Charter Schools. Since poor education is, I’d say, the biggest factor hurting Black America, I’d say that one should expect a greater percent of Black blotters to vote on that issue. How about restricting immigration? Or hell, ILLEGAL immigration. The last thing poor blacks with limited skill sets need (and there are disproportionately way to many of them) is more people coming in to compete for the same jobs, and driving down wages in the process. But I guess hispanics or the next pet cause the Dems to give lip service to, right? The sad plight of blacks is so 1970s! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-i-respond-to-this/723913.md?page=3)