# How do investigators obtain dental records for dead John/Jane Does? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856 "2013-07-29T23:20:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/1 "2013-07-29T23:20:00Z")
I mean, is there some dental database out there? There must be hundreds of dentists in a large city- how do they even know who to ask? Do they all get an email asking them to check each one of their 2842 patient records for a female between the ages of 20 and 50 with a crown on the right incisor and a filling on the left tricuspid? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/2 "2013-07-29T23:25:55Z")
They usually have some suspicion of who the Doe is. A shortlist, at least. So then it’s just a matter of checking up on those individuals’ dental records. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/3 "2013-07-29T23:28:53Z")
There’s no central database, if they don’t know who the deceased is they’ll have no way to find out who his dentist is. Even if they know who the deceased is they may not be able to find out who his dentist is unless the deceased left some record of his treatment. ---
**Author:** ![jackdavinci](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackdavinci/32/3259_2.png) [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/4 "2013-07-29T23:30:14Z")
I don’t think they do. They only get dental records to confirm an identity they already suspect, not to establish one. There is however, I believe, a database for artificial organs and implants. If there were a dental database, it would be on the police computers and consist only of people declared missing. But this would be a massive wasted effort, as there are very few bodies in such poor condition as to need identifying by teeth. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/5 "2013-07-29T23:36:39Z")
If they don’t have a clear idea, though, they will try to note an unusual or common feature to ask dentists. For example, I remember reading about one particular case where an unusual (and time-consuming) dental restoration had been performed on a Jane Doe and the investigators contacted dental associations and even went to a few dental conferences asking if anyone remembered doing such a procedure. As it happened, there were only a handful of dentists in the nation who had ever done that sort of work and after checking their records one of them provided a match. I remember another instance where a Jane Doe had a missing sinus cavity - all she had there was solid bone in that location so, again, they simply had to ask enough dentists to find a matching x-ray showing that anomaly. More common oddities - say, possession of a full set of fully erupted wisdom teeth, or particular configurations of missing teeth - might wind up with a larger pool of candidates, but merely knowing gender and a rough estimate of age will help to narrow done the possibilities. It can’t be any more tedious than matching fingerprints. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/6 "2013-07-29T23:46:21Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I mean, is there some dental database out there? There must be hundreds of dentists in a large city- how do they even know who to ask? Do they all get an email asking them to check each one of their 2842 patient records for a female between the ages of 20 and 50 with a crown on the right incisor and a filling on the left tricuspid? My understanding is that investigators rely on dental records mainly to confirm what they already know. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/7 "2013-07-29T23:50:16Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Even if they know who the deceased is they may not be able to find out who his dentist is unless the deceased left some record of his treatment. That’s kind of what I was thinking. If it were me, there wouldn’t be much of anything to go on. I do have a crown, sure, but it was put on 7 or 8 years ago by the guy who was down the street from my apartment, and I haven’t had a “regular dentist” since I was a kid. Even I wouldn’t be sure how to get dental records on me. So it looks like dental records aren’t really all that useful except in very limited, confirmatory, circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/8 "2013-07-29T23:53:06Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > So it looks like dental records aren’t really all that useful except in very limited, confirmatory, circumstances. Confirming identity should be their only purpose. Bite mark identification has recently been brought into question along with other wooish forsenic techniques. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/9 "2013-07-30T00:05:08Z")
I believe that police are now asking for dental rwcords on missing persons, when they have a reason to suspect the pweron may be dead. That can speed up identification if a body is found. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/10 "2013-07-30T00:06:38Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#): > > There is however, I believe, a database for artificial organs and implants. The reason for that is in case the device has to be recalled. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/11 "2013-07-30T00:08:59Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If they don’t have a clear idea, though, they will try to note an unusual or common feature to ask dentists. For example, I remember reading about one particular case where an unusual (and time-consuming) dental restoration had been performed on a Jane Doe and the investigators contacted dental associations and even went to a few dental conferences asking if anyone remembered doing such a procedure. As it happened, there were only a handful of dentists in the nation who had ever done that sort of work and after checking their records one of them provided a match. > > I remember another instance where a Jane Doe had a missing sinus cavity - all she had there was solid bone in that location so, again, they simply had to ask enough dentists to find a matching x-ray showing that anomaly. > > More common oddities - say, possession of a full set of fully erupted wisdom teeth, or particular configurations of missing teeth - might wind up with a larger pool of candidates, but merely knowing gender and a rough estimate of age will help to narrow done the possibilities. It can’t be any more tedious than matching fingerprints. I read somewhere about a plane crash where most of the victims were from the city where the crash occurred, and for many of them, dental records had to be used to identify them. Several dentists got in some really big trouble with the licensing board, the IRS, and their insurance carriers because their patients’ dental work did not match up with the records they had on file. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/12 "2013-07-30T00:24:41Z")
There is a central database. It’s called NAMUS. For missing persons DNA and dental records are loaded into the case file if they are available. Then any investigator from around the country can have access if they have an unidentified body. There is no central database of all dental records. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![eightysix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@eightysix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eightysix)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/13 "2013-07-30T00:42:43Z")
I’m not sure if NAMUS compiles the actual records, or just the dentist contact info. In either case it’s not a central database per se, as a third party has to provide the info - ie, the info is not loaded in as a matter of course - people do so only after someone is missing. It’s worth mentioning also that dental records, or more precisely xrays, can be useful even in the absence of significant dental work, as the morphology of the teeth and roots, as well as jaw bones, vary enough between individuals so that they can often be used to ID an unknown, provided of course there are antemortem films for comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Keeve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f07891/32.png) [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/14 "2013-07-30T00:43:48Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > There is a central database. It’s called NAMUS. Just to clarify, [that database](http://www.namus.gov/) is of missing persons, not of dentists. > [@TriPolar](#): > > There’s no central database, if they don’t know who the deceased is they’ll have no way to find out who his dentist is. Even if they know who the deceased is they may not be able to find out who his dentist is unless the deceased left some record of his treatment. This is my fear. No one by my wife knows which dentists I’ve seen in the past 30 years. If they can’t contact her, they’ll never know which dentist to ask. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/15 "2013-07-30T00:56:10Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Just to clarify, [that database](http://www.namus.gov/) is of missing persons, not of dentists.This is my fear. No one by my wife knows which dentists I’ve seen in the past 30 years. If they can’t contact her, they’ll never know which dentist to ask. I hope you don’t expect to have your unidentified body turning up soon. Not very many people need to be identified that way. If you’ve used insurance, a credit card, or even a check to pay a dentist that would be enough to find your last dentist if that were needed. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/16 "2013-07-30T01:43:44Z")
The central database of fingerprints is AFIS > **[Automated Fingerprint Identification System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automated_Fingerprint_Identification_System)** > > Automated Fingerprint Identification System (AFIS) can refer to The central database of DNA is CODIS > **[Combined DNA Index System](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codis)** > > The Combined DNA Index System (CODIS) is the United States national DNA database created and maintained by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. CODIS consists of three levels of information; Local DNA Index Systems (LDIS) where DNA profiles originate, State DNA Index Systems (SDIS) which allows for laboratories within states to share information, and the National DNA Index System (NDIS) which allows states to compare DNA information with one another. > The CODIS software contains multiple diffe... I can well imagine a central database of dental records being called DENTIS:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-investigators-obtain-dental-records-for-dead-john-jane-does/664856/17 "2013-07-30T03:55:01Z")
> [@eightysix](#): > > I’m not sure if NAMUS compiles the actual records, or just the dentist contact info. In either case it’s not a central database per se, as a third party has to provide the info - ie, the info is not loaded in as a matter of course - people do so only after someone is missing. > > It’s worth mentioning also that dental records, or more precisely xrays, can be useful even in the absence of significant dental work, as the morphology of the teeth and roots, as well as jaw bones, vary enough between individuals so that they can often be used to ID an unknown, provided of course there are antemortem films for comparison. They have the actual records. In my state the law requires us to start a NAMUS case after 30 days. Obviously the investigation has been going on the entire 30 days. We are required to submit DNA from family members at the 30 day mark. The samples are processed by the University of North Texas. Although it is not required by the law, if available we also submit dental records.