# How do Jews regard Christians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 19, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617 "2016-01-19T20:55:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/81 "2016-01-22T01:48:03Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Well, _that_ one came true. šŸ˜ƒ It always does. The successful Prophet always includes some easy ones, like picking Joey Feek in the SDMB Death Pool. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/82 "2016-01-22T02:09:07Z")
Dislcaimer- I havenā€™t read the whole thread. Itā€™s been a rough week. The Talmud is very clear that all righteous people are rewarded- regardless of their religion. From a personal perspective, while I realize that my own religion is full of problem areas and weirdness, I donā€™t understand how Christians hold that Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies. Defeat our enemies? nope. Gather all Jews to the Promised Land? Nope. Rebuild the Temple? Nope. Descendant of King David? Nope. (Under Jewish law, royal heritage would have to be on his fatherā€™s side. If Jesus had no human father, he had no claim to the line of David). So he doesnā€™t fulfill the prophecies, but you still hold heā€™s the messiah? Additionally, I hold that the laws on Temple sacrifice _will be_ binding again. I know Iā€™m not alone in this as several prayers say ā€˜And may Your Temple be rebuilt speedily in our days. there we will serve You in awe as in the days of oldā€™. Yeah, the Temple was destroyed. It wasnā€™t the first time and was no reason to declare the law null and void. To sum up, Iā€™m confused by Christianity (and this is not due to lack of study) but believe that righteous Christians wind up in heaven. I think it goes like this ā€œThe pearly gates! Thank Christ! I made it!ā€ UMM, ABOUT THAT ā€œOh no! Iā€™m going to hell!ā€ NO, THATā€™S NOT IT ā€œIā€™m confused then.ā€ OH- WAIT. I HAVE ALAN RICKMAN UP HERE NOW! HE CAN EXPLAIN IT! EVERYTHING SOUNDS BETTER COMING OUT OF ALAN RICKMAN ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/83 "2016-01-22T02:13:50Z")
I am Jewish and this really depend on the person as long as a Christian doesnā€™t try to made me one too I am fine. I had a Christian friend and she tried to made me one too. It destroyed our friendship ! She wanted me to go to heaven so she could see me again ! WTF! I donā€™t believe in that crap ! ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/84 "2016-01-22T02:29:35Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I donā€™t understand how Christians hold that Jesus fulfilled the messianic prophecies. I believe the deal is that Jesus said at some point, and I do not remember the exact quote, ā€œI come to bring a new covenantā€. I was taught that the Old Testament had a vengeful, mean G-d, and the New Testament was all about nice and happy things. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/85 "2016-01-22T02:30:12Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > Jews, IMO correctly, say this is nonsense, that the word is ā€œyoung woman,ā€ and in any case itā€™s meant to be a sign for King Ahaz, so it would be ridiculous to give a sign that he has to wait 700 years forā€¦ The problem goes beyond the word ā€œalmahā€ which, in fact, does not mean virgin. The KJV renders the verse: ā€œTherefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin _ **shall conceive** _, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.ā€ There is no _ **ā€œshall conceiveā€** _ in the Masoretic Text, and Jewish translations are not the only ones that recognize this. So, for example: From **The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha: New Revised Standard Version; Fourth Edition** : Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Look, the young woman is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Emanuel. From \*\*NABRE - New American Bible Revised Edition: \*\* Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign; the young woman, pregnant and about to bear a son, shall name him Emmanuel. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/86 "2016-01-22T02:59:45Z")
In English, ā€œMaidā€ may mean a virgin _or_ a young woman. Interesting, linguistically. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/87 "2016-01-22T04:20:37Z")
> [@CCitizen](#): > > Just like there is Reform Judaism, so is Protestantism the Reform Christianity. > > According to Orthodox Christianity anyone who does not obey many laws including very restrictive fasts (about 200 days a year) is doomed to eternal suffering. In 1054, Catholicism split from Christianity, and decreased the number of fasts to 80. They allowed milk products during fasts. The Protestants abolished many commandments and all fasts. What do you mean, ā€œCatholicism split from Christianityā€ ā€“ Catholics ARE Christians. The Great Schism split the Eastern Church from the Western, yes. But theyā€™re both Christian. And neither of them are Protestant, either. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/88 "2016-01-22T13:12:08Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe the deal is that Jesus said at some point, and I do not remember the exact quote, ā€œI come to bring a new covenantā€. I was taught that the Old Testament had a vengeful, mean G-d, and the New Testament was all about nice and happy things. Right, thatā€™s why he said: [QUOTE=Matthew 5:18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/89 "2016-01-22T19:04:13Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I believe the deal is that Jesus said at some point, and I do not remember the exact quote, ā€œI come to bring a new covenantā€. I was taught that the Old Testament had a vengeful, mean G-d, and the New Testament was all about nice and happy things. Were you taught about Hell by any chance? Because that is a nice happy thing Judaism doesnā€™t have. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/90 "2016-01-22T19:49:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Were you taught about Hell by any chance? Because that is a nice happy thing Judaism doesnā€™t have. Rabbi Telushkin (sp) says that Jews donā€™t believe in afterlife ā€œbecause no on has cme back to tell us about itā€. šŸ™‚ Many Jews do, however. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/91 "2016-01-22T20:13:10Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Rabbi Telushkin (sp) says that Jews donā€™t believe in afterlife ā€œbecause no on has cme back to tell us about itā€. šŸ™‚ > Many Jews do, however. Neil Gillmanā€™s [**The Death of Death (Resurrection and Immortality in Jewish Thought)**](http://www.amazon.com/Death-Resurrection-Immortality-Jewish-Thought/dp/1580230814) is quite good in my opinion. I would suggest that the afterlife is a post-Torah concept (perhaps borrowed from Zoroastrianism) intended to address the Problem of Evil. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/92 "2016-01-22T20:22:36Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Were you taught about Hell by any chance? Because that is a nice happy thing Judaism doesnā€™t have. There most certainly is. But itā€™s the nature of the punishment that is under controversy-whether itā€™s simply being removed from G-Ds love or more like fire and brimstone.Isaiah 14:15 over 30 references to Hell,and several to it as a place of punishment. Daniel 12:2, Psalm xvii 4-6, Ezekiel 18:20, Isaiah 66:24. Gehenna > **[Gehenna](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna)** > > The Valley of Hinnom, Gehinnom (Hebrew: גֵּיא בֶן־ה֓נֹּם, romanized:Ā GēŹ¾ įø‡en-HÄ«nnōm, or גֵי־ה֓נֹּם, Gē-HÄ«nnōm) or Gehenna (/É”ÉŖĖˆhɛnə/ ghi-HEN-ə; Ancient Greek: Ī“Ī­ĪµĪ½Ī½Ī±, romanized:Ā GĆ©enna), also known as Wadi el-Rababa (Arabic: ŁˆŲ§ŲÆŁŠ Ų§Ł„Ų±ŲØŲ§ŲØŲ©, romanized:Ā WādÄ« l-Rabāba, lit.ā€‰'Valley of the Rebab'), is a historic valley surrounding Jerusalem from the west and southwest that has acquired various theological connotations, including as a place of divine punishment, in Jewish eschatology. > The valley surrou... \*The picture of Gehenna as the place of punishment or destruction of the wicked occurs frequently in the Mishnah in Kiddushin 4.14, Avot 1.5; 5.19, 20, Tosefta t. Bereshith 6.15, and Babylonian Talmud b.Rosh Hashanah 16b:7a; b. Bereshith 28b. Gehenna is considered a Purgatory-like place where the wicked go to suffer until they have atoned for their sins. \* ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/93 "2016-01-22T20:29:24Z")
> [@Jayhawker\_Soule](#): > > Neil Gillmanā€™s [**The Death of Death (Resurrection and Immortality in Jewish Thought)**](http://www.amazon.com/Death-Resurrection-Immortality-Jewish-Thought/dp/1580230814) is quite good in my opinion. I would suggest that the afterlife is a post-Torah concept (perhaps borrowed from Zoroastrianism) intended to address the Problem of Evil. Without actually studying it, I would have assumed that the concept of an afterlife is, as you say, mostly post-Torah - giving rise to both Jewish and Christian notions: but that after the development of Christianity, there was a certain amount of Christian influence. Nonetheless, it never loomed as large in Jewish concepts as in Christian ones, and today many varieties of Judaism are basically indifferent to it (Conservative Judaism, for example, is totally equivocal about the existence of an afterlife - in Conservative Judaism, you can believe it or not, as you like. Orthodox Judaism, OTOH, requires belief in an afterlife, following Maimonides). ---
**Author:** ![Chihuahua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dec6dc/32.png) [@Chihuahua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chihuahua)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/94 "2016-01-22T20:35:06Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > If it is, from the outside, indistinguishable from polytheism, and the Christians themselves canā€™t meaningfully explain the distinctionā€¦ thatā€™s not much of a basis for pronouncements of ā€œfact.ā€ > > I see (some) Christians venerating Mary and various saints, too. Even living Popes. And then there is Satan, who has all the general attributes of a god. Iā€™m an atheist and even\* I\* get sick of hearing people say that veneration of saints is the same thing as polytheism. Itā€™s not. At all. ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/95 "2016-01-23T00:05:32Z")
> [@Jayhawker\_Soule](#): > > Neil Gillmanā€™s [**The Death of Death (Resurrection and Immortality in Jewish Thought)**](http://www.amazon.com/Death-Resurrection-Immortality-Jewish-Thought/dp/1580230814) is quite good in my opinion. I would suggest that the afterlife is a post-Torah concept (perhaps borrowed from Zoroastrianism) intended to address the Problem of Evil. In case the Jews here donā€™t know this, most Christian laymen have no clue what the NT says about the afterlife. They have a hazy idea of going to heaven and being reunited with their dear departed spouses as soon as they die, but Jesus said that there are no marriages in heaven, and several passages imply that the dead stay dead until the Second Coming, which will DEFINITELY occur [Real Soon.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/96 "2016-01-23T01:23:21Z")
> [@TonySinclair](#): > > the Second Coming, which will DEFINITELY occur [Real Soon.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predictions_and_claims_for_the_Second_Coming_of_Christ) Wovoka believed in the Ghost Shirt _and_ Jesus? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/97 "2016-01-27T23:30:34Z")
Jayhawker Soule: > [@](#): > > I would suggest that the afterlife is a post-Torah concept (perhaps borrowed from Zoroastrianism) intended to address the Problem of Evil. Torah-contemporary belief in the soulā€™s continued existence after death is attested to by the story of the witch of Endor in I Samuel chapter 28. That may not mention such matters as reward and punishment (allusions to those are less direct in scripture), but the existence of an afterlife at all is clearly part of the canon. ---
**Author:** ![Jayhawker\_Soule](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@Jayhawker\_Soule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jayhawker_Soule)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/98 "2016-01-27T23:47:31Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Jayhawker Soule: > > > [@](#): > > > > I would suggest that the afterlife is a post-Torah concept (perhaps borrowed from Zoroastrianism) intended to address the Problem of Evil. > > Torah-contemporary belief in the soulā€™s continued existence after death is attested to by the story of the witch of Endor in I Samuel chapter 28. That may not mention such matters as reward and punishment (allusions to those are less direct in scripture), but the existence of an afterlife at all is clearly part of the canon. [ol][_]I Samuel is not part of the Torah.[_]I spoke poorly. What I really meant to say is that the afterlife as a means of effecting reward and punishment is a post-Torah concept. By the way, a rather good article touching on this is Brichtoā€™s [**Kin, Cult, Land and Afterlife - a Biblical Complex**](http://www.jstor.org/stable/23506813?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents).[/ol] ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/99 "2016-01-28T00:25:41Z")
> [@Jayhawker\_Soule](#): > > I Samuel is not part of the Torah. I thought it was. [Link.](http://www.torah.org/learning/basics/primer/torah/samuel.html) And I should like to ask Rabbi Telushkin about the Witch of Endor, a story related to me by my Christian Grandmother. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617/100 "2016-01-28T00:37:53Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I thought it was. > [Link.](http://www.torah.org/learning/basics/primer/torah/samuel.html) I canā€™t find anything in your cite that says Samuel is part of the Torah. Which is good, because it isnā€™t. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-jews-regard-christians/743617.md?page=6)