# How do locals pronounce the name of the town of Cirencester in Gloucestershire? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 20, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791 "2009-09-20T03:02:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/1 "2009-09-20T03:02:28Z")
I’m working on a novel set in 15th Century England and part of the action is set near the town of Cirencester, Gloucestershire. Given that the readers of a text novel will pronounce names however they want, still, I’m finding it irksome not to have the correct pronunciation in mind as I’m writing. Wikipedia says that Cirencester is pronounced as ‘SYE-rən-ses-tər’ but, given what the British do with names like Leicestershire, Worcestershire, and Gloucestershire, I find that hard to believe. I’ll go with however local residents choose to pronounce it today. Can anyone help? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/2 "2009-09-20T03:15:52Z")
This is an odd case. It used to be pronounced /sisester/, but fairly recently the pronunciation changed to follow the spelling. So, if you’re in 15th century England, it might be pronounced either way! (I’m not sure when the spelling got fixed and the pronunciation changed away from the spelling). ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/3 "2009-09-20T04:44:27Z")
Is there a reason that Gloucester, Worcester, and Leicester lost their “ch” but places like Manchester and Dorchester didn’t? Are Gloucester and the others older? [sorry for the hijack, **Satyagrahi**] ---
**Author:** ![Deflagration](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3ab097/32.png) [@Deflagration](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deflagration)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/4 "2009-09-20T05:57:45Z")
Having lived there for 30+ years and my family being there for at least 6 generations… Siren - As in police car. Sester - As to rhyme with the electric uncle from ‘Addams Family’ Locals often contract it to just ‘Ciren’. Anecdotaly, in the past, it was pronounced ‘Ziren Zester’ although to my Cotswold ears this sounds more Somerset to me. It’s also been pronounced ‘Sis-It-Er’ in the past but I can’t tell you when. 15th century fact:- The Parish church bell tower was built. Originally designed to have a spire but the foundations started to fail during construction. Hence the large and non-architectural flying buttresses. ---
**Author:** ![Teacake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Teacake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teacake)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/5 "2009-09-20T12:42:04Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Is there a reason that Gloucester, Worcester, and Leicester lost their “ch” but places like Manchester and Dorchester didn’t? Are Gloucester and the others older? > > [sorry for the hijack, **Satyagrahi**] All corruptions from Latin castrum, meaning a fort. Hard to say whether any of them are older than any others, in that despite their modern names coming from the Romans, settlements were probably already there before that. Dorchester, for instance, was the home of the Durotriges tribe, one of the Celtic tribes predating the Romans. Thanks to the tribe, the Romans called their town Durnovaria when they built a fort there. Dur= Dor and castrum=chester. I have no knowledge of why some places ended up with a ch instead of a c at the start of castrum, though if I was asked to guess I might say something about local accents or spelling variations which made it into official language and then filtered back to the people who actually lived there. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/6 "2009-09-20T20:16:15Z")
Many thanks, **Giles** and **Deflagration**. 🙂 I’ve seen it noted that Shakespeare referred to the town in one of the historical plays as ‘Sisiter’…and that would fit with what you’re telling me. And the fluid spelling of Middle English would make it likely that the name was often spelled phonetically as it was pronounced. So my task is to balance accuracy with clarity for the modern reader. I’ll come up with something. 🙂 Thanks again! ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/7 "2009-09-20T21:16:37Z")
> [@Satyagrahi](#): > > So my task is to balance accuracy with clarity for the modern reader. I’ll come up with something. 🙂 Like relocating the action to Cheltenham. 😉 Not that there should be any doubt about it but, as a resident of Gloucestershire living less than 20 miles from Cirencester, I can confirm that **Deflagration** ’s information is bang on. ---
**Author:** ![alixs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f07891/32.png) [@alixs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alixs)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/8 "2014-07-10T02:31:05Z")
> [@Deflagration](#): > > Having lived there for 30+ years and my family being there for at least 6 generations… > > Siren - As in police car. > Sester - As to rhyme with the electric uncle from ‘Addams Family’ > > Locals often contract it to just ‘Ciren’. > > Anecdotaly, in the past, it was pronounced ‘Ziren Zester’ although to my Cotswold ears this sounds more Somerset to me. > > It’s also been pronounced ‘’ in the past but I can’t tell you when. > > 15th century fact:- The Parish church bell tower was built. Originally designed to have a spire but the foundations started to fail during construction. Hence the large and non-architectural flying buttresses. I lived in Oxford and Leicester in the 1970s and I was told that it was pronounced sis-it-er, and that’s how I’ve pronounced it ever since. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/9 "2014-07-10T04:14:58Z")
My cousin lives there. She pronounces it **Deflagration** ’s way (not that I expect the OP cares any more). They say a lot of things funny in Oxford. Its a town full of classicists, after all. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/10 "2014-07-10T07:16:56Z")
I hale from nearby. Older (now dead) members of my family referred to it always as Sisester, but most people now call it Cirensester. I am in my sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/11 "2014-07-10T08:17:52Z")
As far as I remember growing up in Cheltenham, we pronounced it siren’ster. No idea what the locals called it. Cheltenham we pronounced Cheltenham. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/12 "2014-07-10T08:49:27Z")
My father-in-law and his family lives in Stroud, nearby, and I’ve only ever heard them pronounce it as it is written. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/13 "2014-07-10T09:57:27Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > As far as I remember growing up in Cheltenham, we pronounced it siren’ster. No idea what the locals called it. > Cheltenham we pronounced Cheltenham. is that Chelt en ham with all the syllables evenly stressed, or Chelt 'nam, with stress on the first syllable. In my experience, coming from the frequently mispronounced Werr cester shire (Woostershere), the former is how many Americans will pronounce it ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/14 "2014-07-10T10:03:47Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > is that Chelt en ham with all the syllables evenly stressed, or Chelt 'nam, with stress on the first syllable. … More like the latter. I mean, you don’t exactly swallow the other syllables completely, but the stress is on the first syllable. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/15 "2014-07-10T10:21:36Z")
Just to confuse matters, there’s also [Chichester](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chichester). ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/16 "2014-07-10T10:35:45Z")
But Chichester isn’t confusing, is it? 😕 A tourist could have fun with Bicester, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/17 "2014-07-10T10:37:14Z")
And, yet further confusement: I recall hearing / seeing it suggested a few times, long ago, that another local-pronunciation variant for the Gloucestershire town, was “sister” – just as in, female sibling. I suspect that that was a myth – thought up so as to make work, the following foolish limerick. There was a young lady of Cirencester Who stood up to speak, and they hirencester: A man threw a carrot – She screeched like a parrot – But ducked in a flash, and it mirencester. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/18 "2014-07-10T12:47:03Z")
The heck with it – I cannot resist posting the following verse offering – part of a piece by the late British humorist Paul Jennings, about pronunciation / spelling craziness re place names in England; and attempting rhyming guidance, for those perplexed by that issue. …Tourists, attention ! Nor forthwith assume You say as spelt each little town, like Frome. The Welsh have funny names your tongue to twist with Like Penmaenmawr and Gwlch and Aberystwyth: That you expect. But when in England, how Dare any tourist ask the way to Slough, Who yesterday put someone in a huff By thinking “brow” homophonous with Brough? Though Glyndebourne opera for the cultured few is, How can they get there but by way of Lewes? Under the Sussex Downs, where snug they both lie, Are many other gems – for instance, Hoathly. What lord of maps, what orthographic jouster Grapples with Bicester and its sicester, Towcester [A], And never gets in something of a panic If blank stares greet him when he asks for Alnwick, Nor ends by thinking people downright spooky Who make a place spelt Stiffkey rhyme with Newquay? Tourists, you needn’t be alarmed unduly By England’s treatment of a word like Beaulieu. These Norman names (or Saxon ones, like Wrotham) Unlettered men have modified to suit ‘em, And pundits long since gave up trying to teach ‘em How you should really say a name like Beauchamp. Our names and views hold unexpected joy: – Views English-Channel seaward, as at Fowey; Views over sands, or rocky views and pebbly; Pastoral views, near inland towns like Weobley; East Anglian views, with churches old and mossy, Each as unique as disyllabic Costessy… [A] The author would seem here to have cheated a bit, in order to get the desired rhyme: I understand that the usual pronunciation of the T-place, is the same as that of the thing with which one makes toast. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2014, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-locals-pronounce-the-name-of-the-town-of-cirencester-in-gloucestershire/510791/19 "2014-07-10T16:42:14Z")
Around here we Have Norwell, Southwell and Averham, or norrel, suvvell and airem. And others.