# How do modern pirates get on board? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 1, 2008, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001 "2008-10-01T14:19:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/41 "2008-10-03T02:44:18Z")
**Raguleader** , I have no cite for it, but my understanding has been that even armoring the magazines is a thing of the past of the modern aircraft carrier. IIRC, one of the concerns with the _Forrestal_ fire was that if the airplant blew, it was likely to set off the magazines as well. Which would have probably meant the loss of the whole ship. As for the battleship armoring, I believe the scheme you described was called “Hit or Miss” armoring. ---
**Author:** ![slaphead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@slaphead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slaphead)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/42 "2008-10-03T07:59:53Z")
> [@OtakuLoki](#): > > As for the battleship armoring, I believe the scheme you described was called “Hit or Miss” armoring. [All or Nothing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_or_Nothing_(Battleship_armour)) armor, dreamt up by the US before WW1 and then applied in varying forms until the end of the big-gun warship. > [@](#): > > In the ideal form of the system, all of a battleship’s armor would be concentrated to form an armored “citadel” around the ship’s magazine spaces: an armored box of uniform thickness designed to defend against the largest enemy guns. Save for the ships turrets, the ship’s ammunition hoists, conning tower and part of its steering gear, nothing in the way of armor protected the remainder of the ship. By stripping away the armor from all other parts of the ship the armor of the citadel could be made thicker. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/43 "2008-10-03T08:11:09Z")
[This is a link to](http://www.lloydslistdcn.com.au/informaoz/LLDCN/index.jsp?section=news&page=view_daily&art_id=1222993841401&source=newswire&WT.cg_n=newswire&WT.cg_s=Deter-pirates-from-boarding,-security-expert-says) a story in an industry newspaper which is relevant. I think you will be able to open the link: I subscribe but as far as I can see it is open access. Short version: head of International Maritime Bureau says: > [@](#): > > It was not only a bad idea to put armed guards on cargo vessels, but also illegal in most flag states, he said. > > “The crew [of a vessel being attacked] are very few, they’re not trained to use weapons, and you’re not trying to prevent the low-level thief getting on board to steal a thousand dollars worth of valuables from the ship," Capt Mukundan said. > > “You’re more interested in protecting the vessel against very organised and heavily armed attack, which is not usually possible with just a few people on board.” I wrote out a long post earlier today and lost it in a board outage. Short version? I’ve been working in the legal and commercial side of shipping for nearly 20 years, and I agree with **sailor’s** comments above. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/44 "2008-10-03T08:13:11Z")
Plus: welcome back **sailor**! ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/45 "2008-10-03T15:26:27Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Nothing on a boat I do not own is worth getting shot over, and on a boat that I own only my family would be worth fighting for. Very true, but at the same time I would think that being commandeered by pirates is unpleasant and life threatening enough that I might try to defend myself, even if for the sake of making it back home, if not for the cargo. What are the chances of surviving a pirate boarding? Are the crews normally returned safe, even if a bit delayed? Are they tortured, killed, mistreated? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/46 "2008-10-03T16:05:17Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Very true, but at the same time I would think that being commandeered by pirates is unpleasant and life threatening enough that I might try to defend myself, even if for the sake of making it back home, if not for the cargo. > > What are the chances of surviving a pirate boarding? Are the crews normally returned safe, even if a bit delayed? Are they tortured, killed, mistreated? Depends on the pirate’s goals. Some of the piracy involves pirates taking over private yacht, killing the few people onboard, and selling off the yacht. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/47 "2008-10-03T16:22:49Z")
> [@FRDE](#): > > Personally I have a simple solution for ships that are hijacked, moored up and awaiting ransom. Sink them. Paying ransom never works in the long term. Well, the owner of the ship might have something to say about that. Besides, paying the ransom is a short term solution to secure the release of the cargo and crew. Then you go after the pirates. Basically, the pirates get on board the boat by zipping alongside it in a inflatable boat or whatever and then climbing on board using a grappling hook or something. As someone else pointed out, the ship is as big as a building and probably only has about a dozen crew or less. The best defense is usually to spot the pirates beforehand and then accelerate your building. I doubt pointing a gun or an RPG would have much effect. The crew might not even see you and I imagine it’s pretty hard to aim one at anything significant from a little speedboat being tossed back and forth. ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/48 "2008-10-03T16:42:55Z")
Don’t the larger ships have water cannons on board, for firefighting? I thought I read on line a year or two ago about crews using water cannons to repel pirates. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/49 "2008-10-03T16:44:43Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Plus: welcome back **sailor**! Thanks! **Matt** too. It’s good to see someone noticed! It’s good to be back. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/50 "2008-10-03T16:55:38Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > Don’t the larger ships have water cannons on board, for firefighting? I thought I read on line a year or two ago about crews using water cannons to repel pirates. Not water _cannon_. But standard inch and a half fire fighting hose and nozzles on solid stream can deliver a really effective kinetic impact. One of the reasons that a hose team consists of several people is that the reaction from the water leaving the nozzle is pretty powerful all on its own. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/51 "2008-10-03T17:46:42Z")
> [@BMax](#): > > Don’t the larger ships have water cannons on board, for firefighting? I thought I read on line a year or two ago about crews using water cannons to repel pirates. You can use a firehose against a Greenpeace inflatable but if you have several armed inflatables approaching and you are on deck hosing them down you are asking to get shot. This problem might require a combination of measures. From trying to help get some kind of effective government set up in Somalia, to diplomatic to having some armed presence in the area to setting up a convoy system etc. France did a good job of catching the guys after the whole thing was over. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/52 "2008-10-03T18:39:14Z")
18th century admiralty law (see the Aubrey/Maturin novels) talked about piracy. So, If caught, could the somali pirate expect to swing? (not from yardams, as they no longer exist). Maybe hanging would be a good way to reduce interest (in piracy) as a career? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2008, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/53 "2008-10-03T19:14:10Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > 18th century admiralty law (see the Aubrey/Maturin novels) talked about piracy. > So, If caught, could the somali pirate expect to swing? (not from yardams, as they no longer exist). > Maybe hanging would be a good way to reduce interest (in piracy) as a career? You forget that these people are facing death by starvation anyway and that many thousands are risking their lives in the crossing to Europe and hundreds are dying, not only men but mothers with their babies. When Americans are willing to risk their lives in Iraq for a tenuous ideal what makes you think Africans would not be willing to risk their lives for something much more immediately necessary? Half of Africa is in civil wars where they are killing and dying just for some food or the chance to steal and rape. What makes you think hanging a pirate is going to have any effect on deterring others? I am reminded of a classic of romantic Spanish literature, The Song of the Pirate, by Espronceda (1808-1842). It presents the pirate as a romantic character, free from the chains of governments. > [@](#): > > [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node\_id=1368835](http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1368835) > > La Canción del Pirata - Jose De Espronceda (1808-1842) > Translation by James Kennedy > > The breeze fair aft, all sails on high, > Ten guns on each side mounted seen, > She does not cut the sea, but fly, > A swiftly sailing brigantine; > A pirate bark, the “Dreaded” named, > For her surpassing boldness famed, > On every sea well-known and shore, > From side to side their boundaries o’er. > > The moon in streaks the waves illumes > Hoarse groans the wind the rigging through; > In gentle motion raised assumes > The sea a silvery shade with blue; > Whilst singing gaily on the poop > The pirate Captain, in a group, > Sees Europe here, there Asia lies, > And Stamboul in the front arise. > > “Sail on, my swift one! nothing fear; > Nor calm, nor storm, nor foeman’s force, > Shall make thee yield in thy career > Or turn thee from thy course.” > \<…\> > I am condemned to die ! - I laugh; > For, if my fates are kindly sped, > My doomer from his own ship’s staff > Perhaps I’ll hang instead. > > And if I fall, why what is life? > For lost I gave it then as due, > When from slavery’s yoke in strife > A rover! I withdrew. > > My treasure is my gallant bark, > My only God is liberty; > My law is might, the wind my mark, > My country is the sea. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/54 "2008-10-04T00:11:35Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > The best defense is usually to spot the pirates beforehand and then accelerate your building. A really, _really_ fast large merchant ship does 26 knots. Most do less than 18. 13-14 knots is standard for most bulk carriers. You aren’t going to outrun anything. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/55 "2008-10-04T01:14:11Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > A really, _really_ fast large merchant ship does 26 knots. Most do less than 18. 13-14 knots is standard for most bulk carriers. You aren’t going to outrun anything. Speed is not the only factor here, although an important one. A large ship can maintain headway in seas too rough for smaller boats. The small boat may be able to do 30-40 knots, but it may accrue damage by bashing into ocean swells or waves. I can’t find it now, but this morning I read a story online of a yachtsman who was able to escape by taking advantage of his (sailpowered) boats ability to handle the somewhat rough seas headon, compared to the boat the pirates were using. (The attack was said to be off Haiti.) [http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations\_pirates.html](http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_pirates.html) Some piracy stats, old (2005) article. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/56 "2008-10-04T01:30:19Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Speed is not the only factor here, although an important one. > > A large ship can maintain headway in seas too rough for smaller boats. The small boat may be able to do 30-40 knots, but it may accrue damage by bashing into ocean swells or waves. > > I can’t find it now, but this morning I read a story online of a yachtsman who was able to escape by taking advantage of his (sailpowered) boats ability to handle the somewhat rough seas headon, compared to the boat the pirates were using. (The attack was said to be off Haiti.) > > [http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations\_pirates.html](http://www.cargolaw.com/presentations_pirates.html) Some piracy stats, old (2005) article. Some of the boats they have taken hostage were not that large anyway but, in any case, what are you proposing? That cargo ships only traverse the area in weather too rough for smaller boats? Because that makes no sense. Pirates get to choose when they attack and I suppose they know enough to choose when the weather favors them. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/57 "2008-10-04T01:33:03Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Some of the boats they have taken hostage were not that large anyway but, in any case, what are you proposing? That cargo ships only traverse the area in weather too rough for smaller boats? Because that makes no sense. Pirates get to choose when they attack and I suppose they know enough to choose when the weather favors them. My statement was not meant to be an attack on you. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/58 "2008-10-04T02:33:52Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > My statement was not meant to be an attack on you. I did not take it that way. I just genuinely do not understand what you meant or proposed. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/59 "2008-10-04T02:50:11Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > I did not take it that way. I just genuinely do not understand what you meant or proposed. Sorry. I detected defensiveness where none actually existed, it seems. I was only merely pointing out a situation where a large ship might still escape small craft. I was not proposing any solutions to piracy. If pressed, I would point to the proposals in my link, which I will quote: > [@](#): > > Substitutes are being found for carrying cash in the ship’s safe; > > 24 hour radio watches; > > Pre-charged fire hoses at the ready; > > Anti-pirate watches have accounted for dozens of repelled attacks this year alone; and > > Bridge & engine room doors that will not open from the outside create safe havens for crew members against less determined pirate attacks. Those sound reasonable and cost effective to me. They also speak to “lowjacking” ship’s, as well, in the next section. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2008, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001/60 "2008-10-04T04:19:16Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Sorry. I detected defensiveness where none actually existed, it seems. > > I was only merely pointing out a situation where a large ship might still escape small craft. I was not proposing any solutions to piracy. > > If pressed, I would point to the proposals in my link, which I will quote: > > Those sound reasonable and cost effective to me. > > They also speak to “lowjacking” ship’s, as well, in the next section. These solutions do work reasonably well for pirates attempting low grade snatch and runs. A colleague of mine was C/O on a bulker in Indonesia and saw a small boat approaching from the stern while he was on watch in the middle of the night. He just shone a spotlight on them and let them see there was a firehose ready and they pissed off quick. Somalis with military weapons in a lawless area intending to hijack the whole vessel and hoping to get millions are a different proposition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-modern-pirates-get-on-board/466001.md?page=4)