nodnod As I said, I’m more than willing to be corrected on this point if only to further clarify.
#3 (Adelson); #26 (Kerkorian); and #27 (Soros) specifically mentioned their 5th quintile start. The others I put into that group (and to stress - they’re in that group ONLY because I didn’t research beyond Wikipedia; for all I know John Kluge came from wealthy stock) are:
14 Jack Crawford Taylor & family
24 Carl Icahn
25 John Werner Kluge
32 Pierre M Omidyar
35 Dan L Duncan
35 Edward Crosby Johnson III
40 Leonard Blavatnik
40 Ronald Owen Perelman
42 Eli Broad
44 Michael Rubens Bloomberg
45 John R Menard Jr
45 Eric Schmidt
49 Steven Paul Jobs
50 David Geffen
#45, John Menard Jr. His dad founded the company; Jr. runs it now. Wiki doesn’t indicate if Jr. completed Sr.'s wishes or if Jr. ran out on his own. In fact, Jr.'s wiki bio doesn’t indicate that Sr. exists. The only reason I know that is cos I live in Menard’s Country and we all know that here.
Anyhow, if the wiki bio doesn’t say, I don’t know.
Now I’m bewildered- I’ve been using the list in your link, but the positions do not match.
(As for those I gave, Taylor, Kluge, Duncan, Blavatnik, and Broad are on it, at #19, #31, #39, #45, and #46. Of the others, I did not research Bloomberg, Jobs or Geffen, I couldn’t find info on Schmidt’s parents, Johnson inherited Fidelity from his father and is ineligible, Omidyar’s father was an academic and eliminates him under your criteria, Perelman’s father, like him, was in the buyout business, disqualifying him, and the information I’ve found on Icahn and Menard is confused.)
So, you think that the 400 richest people in the US constitute a random sample of the millions of millionaires living in this country today?
I think you’re trying too hard.
The only thing I took offense to was your attempt at constructing my argument, then accusing me of using anecdotes to bolster said argument. Keep in mind I never did any such thing. Then, I took offense to your continued shifting of the goal posts, and use of data that did absolutely nothing to prove that the majority of millionaires in existence inherited their money.
Labrador Deceiver, you seem to be saying that millionaires are pretty common in the United States. Can I ask where you’re getting this? I’m assuming that you’re factoring in home equity?
There are all kinds of different methods, and what seems to be a quite a bit of controversy as to which way is most appropriate. I saw a quote on the internet that said 8.9% of Americans are millionaires (high end), and one that said there were 2.2 million millionaires (low end). I don’t think they’re particularly common.
Here is the Wikipedia article on the two methods used.
The figures in that article are pretty incoherent. There are 3,000,000 individuals in North America with a net worth of a million dollars and 8,900,000 household in the United States with a net worth of a million dollars?
I guess it’s the mindset I think some of the college football players have…they’re in college just to play football and hope the NFL notices them. If the NFL noticed them playing with their friends in a backlot somewhere, would they even go the college route?
I know Bill Gates didn’t graduate college (right?). I know there are stories out there of successful people who dropped out of high school and eventually became millionaires. Maybe because I’m a nerd, I place a high value on education, and I fear for some of these 19-20 year old kids who get snatched up by the NFL before they graduate.
In your case, Manda JO, I would need more info. Are you a college junior who just perfected an implanted internet device and Microsoft is nibbling at your ear? In that case, I can see you jumping for the job…because you’re still in your career field. But jumping to the NFL and abandoning your major in business or English or pre-med or what have you…I’m sorry, I just can’t agree with it. To me, it’s not about the money or the NFL glory or the future endorsements…it’s about your education.
StGermain, I’m sure there are NFL college dropouts who have managed to go back and get their degree. I just didn’t know what the percentage was.
Moderator coughs for attention, even if somewhat late: I guess that this is not technically a rules violation, since you are commenting on what was said, not on the person, but still… it’s not what I’d call “polite conversation.”
Now, on a more serious note: This forum is Cafe Society. The topic of celebrities who have earned lots of money and gone broke is fine. The question of “How many self-made zillionaires are there?” belongs in GQ for factual answers. The question of whether entrepreneurship is rare belongs in GD (most likely.)
So please, folks, while slight tangents are fine, please keep focused on celebs. And play nice.
I didn’t refer to the article as a cite for sheer numbers, only as an explanation of the methods used . To C K Dexter Haven’s point, I don’t really care about the numbers for he purposes of this discussion.
I know you didn’t actually issue me a warning, but I find it a bit strange that, of the thousands of instances of “impolite conversation” which have manifested themselves on this board over the years, this post is worthy of mention.
I’m a teacher. No one places a higher value on education than I do. But if a reclusive millionaire on his deathbed had liked the tone of my voice and offered me a $100,000 to read to him in his final year–a job that wouldn’t do me any good in the long run but would have made me a quick buck–I’d have done it in a heartbeat. It would have meant finishing college a year late, but finishing with a nest egg that would give me real opportunities–the option for grad school, or to take poorly paying job that had long-term potential, or to start my own business. At the end of your sophomore year in college, would you have turned down that offer?
I value education. I don’t value the 4 year time-table for its own sake.
And none of which dispells the fact that had any of those self made millionaires been born in sub-Sahara Africa or Bangalore or Kabul or almost any place other than the good old United States of America the outcome would have been quite different. Unless you have some evidence that they were born where they were by some feat of will, I call shenanagins on the self made idea.
So, a lower- or middle-class citizen born in the US who goes on to become a millionaire by his own hand isn’t self-made, due to the fact that he was born in America?
To think I joined this board for the rational discussion.
ETA: We’ve been specifically talking about millionaires in the US, not sub-Sahara Africa.
The only problem with this premise is that many of these player’s are not in college for the education, but merely for the chance to play football and audition for the pros.
As an example, I was in a college class with Marquand Manuel, a safety for the Florida Gators who went on the NFL (I’m not sure if he’s still there, but he was playing for the Seahawks when they went to the Super Bowl). He’d stroll into class, whereupon the professor would spend a few seconds gushing over how many tackles he had that weekend, then he’d stroll to the back of class and talk to his friend for an hour. Frequently, he’d get up to leave during the middle of the class (he had to go to practice), and the prof would wish him luck on this weekend’s game. He clearly wasn’t there to be educated.
It may be unfortunate that these athletes aren’t taking advantage of the opportunity for a free education, but that’s the reality.
(This is certainly not true of all student athletes. I was in another class with the kicker for the team, who never was going to be drafted. He was quiet, mild mannered, and, last I heard, ended up going to FSU for law school. Then again, he was never going to be offered millions of dollars to jump to the pros)
On the nose. If you were dropped in the wilderness with nothing, the standard of living you would obtain is the product of your own abilities. Every else is a benefit accrued as a result of living in society. Hell, if you can even build a fire it’s because someone else taught you. Best analogy would be if you were dropped there without any knowledge other than what you could deduce on your own, but you’d probably be dead in a week, so not really meaningful.
Even the fact that millionaires exist is a construct of society. It’s the fact that we have together agreed to pretend that small pieces of paper have value that keeps us off the barter standard. You’re not going to see many millionaires if selling means trading a cow for two pigs and a chicken, and you’re not going to see many millionaires if keeping it means defending your possessions without the assistance of the social compact.
Self made, it is to laugh. It’s like a three year old child who daddy let paint a few square inches of siding claiming he painted the house.
But you’ve been repeatedly citing numbers in your posts. It’s reasonable for people to ask where the numbers are coming from. If it’s a source that can’t even reconcile its own figures then its reliability is suspect. And if the numbers are suspect then the conclusions derived from those numbers are as well.
