# How do Obama voters feel about his record on foreign policy and civil liberties? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068 "2012-04-07T06:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/1 "2012-04-07T06:39:19Z")
As I said [in this post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=14882788&postcount=64), I voted for Obama in 2008, but will not be doing so in 2012 because of his dismal record on war, the Middle East, and civil liberties. Throughout his administration, national attention has focused on domestic issues, and the reasons for that are understandable. Nonetheless the decisions that the President of the United States makes in foreign policy and national security issues will affect lives of countless millions of people. Moreover, as Obama continues the policies of George W. Bush, the chance of ever undoing the damage becomes slimmer. The longer something takes place for, the more people become used to it, and the less likelihood that it will ever be changed. To name just a few examples, Obama [sided with the bad guys](http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/supreme-court-struggles-with-strip-searches/) during the recent Supreme Court case about strip searches. He has scaled up drone strikes in [Yemen](http://www.salon.com/2011/07/23/yemen_us_airstrikes_update/) and [Pakistan](http://www.salon.com/2012/03/16/americas_immoral_drone_war/). And related to all of this, his [campaign](http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2011/05/obamas-war-whistle-blowers/38106/) against anyone who’s willing to tell the truth about these matters. The list goes on. The purpose of this thread is just to see how Obama voters react to all of this. Approve of it? Disapprove but weigh other issues more heavily? Disapprove but will still vote for the guy because the Republicans would be worse? Won’t vote for the guy? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Colossus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.colossus/32/9423_2.png) [@Dr.Colossus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Colossus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/2 "2012-04-07T07:24:24Z")
i’m \*positive \*Mittens will do a better job in every facet. i’m pretty sure the major issue is a lack of pragmatic expectations. in short, it’s perspective (yours/others) that is flawed, not the actual things being done. calling Obama’s records on war “dismal” is pretty ridiculous. he pulled the groundtroops out of iraq (like he said he would) and has been doing all he can to get us out of afghanistan. i realized morons would love for us to pull the rug out of these nations we opted into and fucked the fuck up-but we created colossal messes of already super screwed up places and need to exit in a way that is swift but doesn’t undermind the (however ancillary) good-intentions (this is a stretch to say, i know–that we had good intentions. but the good things we HAVE done in these places could easily be imbalanced by a total, cold-turkey withdrawal). saying his focus has been on domestic rather than foreign issues is, again, just a flaw in perspective. we’ve done a great deal that hasn’t much reached mainstream consciousness. for example, he put troops on the ground to fight the now famous Kony and his army in africa (no one mentioned this on the news that i ever saw and it only became known once the invisible children debacle hit the airwaves). he’s got a better track record for “solving” dictators in the middle east than the last like. four presidents. it’s an impossible position to be in– he was voted in as the anti-bush. i still maintain he was a national swing vote. he was a promise to be everything the last 8 years wasnt—and we all had ideas of what that might be. we demanded change, then drug our feet on every issue when things “started to change.” ‘CHANGE THINGS,’ we all shouted. “WAIT, THINGS ARE CHANGING AND I HATE CHANGE,” we all shouted when they did. i think the op post really indicates the american frame of mind these days. we are fed up and want “something else,” no matter what the current thing is. we are like an impatient child w a tv remote. everyone’s so outraged in so many different directions that i don’t think anyone’s really going to be open-minded enough to be satisfied with anyone. let alone obama. dude had 8 years of driving it into the ground to correct. that’s going to be difficult. and with a petulant nation barking for “SOMETHING ELSE” about every dang thing, i’m not real sure how anyone could please the mob. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/3 "2012-04-07T07:46:13Z")
His record on foreign policy is absolutely stellar compared to his predecessor, and far preferable to the bombastic threats thrown around by every one of his rivals with the possible exception of Ron Paul, who has too much other crazy to be viable. I’m not a fan of drone strikes either, but they seem to be carried out (most of the time) with the covert cooperation of the countries where they’re happening. Say what you will about them, but Obama has significantly reduced the scale of our international military operations, and the associated human and material costs, without reducing our security. I’m disappointed with him on lots of domestic issues. I can’t claim to be a big fan. OTOH, again, his opponents, in particular their ideas on tax and spending policies, are downright scary. So he wins in comparison to the possible alternatives. I suppose I could search for a third party candidate with a platform closer to my views, but IMO there is far more chance that if I and enough other follow this strategy that will will be in effect voting for a Republican, because as usual, I expect Republicans as a whole to be far more loyal in their voting their brand than Democrats are. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/4 "2012-04-07T08:28:56Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > Disapprove but will still vote for the guy because the Republicans would be worse? This. The Republicans are thugs, fools, bigots and raving lunatics. As things are I’d _never_ vote for a Republican for anything; anything that makes their party more powerful is a bad idea at this point. And like it or not in practical terms it’s Obama or a Republican. I despise him, but I’ll still vote for him even though he’s not even all that lesser of an evil. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/5 "2012-04-07T08:50:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And like it or not in practical terms it’s Obama or a Republican. Whose fault is that? If you think your one vote is significant enough that you can’t afford to “waste” it on a third party, you should also recognise your support of the status quo as a significant part of the problem. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/6 "2012-04-07T09:03:29Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > … I voted for Obama in 2008, but will not be doing so in 2012 because of his dismal record on war, the Middle East, and civil liberties. You raise an interesting question but to vote for someone else (Paul?? Nader??? None of the Above???) is to cut off your nose to spite your face. If I were a young healthy bachelor I’d be marching with OWS. Your plan, instead, is to root for Romney? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/7 "2012-04-07T09:13:55Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Whose fault is that? If you think your one vote is significant enough that you can’t afford to “waste” it on a third party, you should also recognise your support of the status quo as a significant part of the problem. I don’t support the status quo; I just recognize that the system is rigged and that there’s nothing I or anyone else can do but at best slightly slow down the slide of the country into fascism/theocracy. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/8 "2012-04-07T09:47:57Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t support the status quo; You vote for Obama, despite saying you despise him. That’s called supporting the status quo. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/9 "2012-04-07T09:57:06Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You vote for Obama, despite saying you despise him. That’s called supporting the status quo. That’s called not having any realistic choice but him or a Republican. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/10 "2012-04-07T10:17:28Z")
And we all saw how voting for a third party protest vote turned out with Bush’s second term. Say what you will, but the US wouldn’t be in half the shit it’s in if W had been a 1 term President. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/11 "2012-04-07T10:28:23Z")
Exactly. Protest votes don’t _work_. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/12 "2012-04-07T13:26:32Z")
I’m generally ok with the President’s foreign policy and civil liberties record, so it won’t negatively affect my vote. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/13 "2012-04-07T13:34:01Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > How do Obama voters feel about his record on foreign policy and civil liberties? He’s done better than I figure his opponent would’ve, so I don’t regret voting for the guy. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/14 "2012-04-07T13:39:47Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I don’t support the status quo; I just recognize that the system is rigged and that there’s nothing I or anyone else can do but at best slightly slow down the slide of the country into fascism/theocracy. Man, that’s so sad to hear. The winner just has to be a tiny bit better than the next guy. And, it’s all about making sure that the gap between Obama and Romney is maintained. The gap between what’s sensible, right thing to do and Obama be damned. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/15 "2012-04-07T14:00:02Z")
I know drone strikes are held to be indefensible, but I don’t really see the difference between drone strikes on suspected terrorists and dropping bombs from an airplane on suspected terrorists. In either case, the suspected terrorists have some trivial funding compared to the budget of the US military. The only difference with drones is that there is even less chance of a member of the US military being killed (which would already be a negligible number). I think the former is a preferable scenario. That said, while I find it upsetting that Guantanamo is still open, that weapon deals with Saudi Arabia have continued and that there are ruminations about an attack on Iran, I think Romney [would be worse on this issue](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qk6CQVvMtNU&feature=player_detailpage#t=41s). ---
**Author:** ![Molesworth\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9dc877/32.png) [@Molesworth\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Molesworth_2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/16 "2012-04-07T14:14:29Z")
As an Australian, I didn’t vote for Obama. But I fail to see why voting Republican would be any better in terms of US foreign relations or civil liberties. Mind you, I may be a little bit biased. The first time I ever took any interest in politics was when I was an 8yo living in the US and I saw Reagan’s 1980 campaign ads, which were based purely on fear (eg [helpful graphic] “this is how many ICBMs the Soviets have, this is how many we have, so vote Republican”). Since then I’ve seen Newt Gingrich put out a Contract on America, in which he wanted to gut education, and John McCain singing “Bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb-bomb Iran” to the tune of a Beach Boys song. And McCain was one of the saner Republicans I’ve seen. Obama isn’t perfect, but I seriously don’t get why any thinking person in the US would ever even consider voting for the GOP. There is something quite seriously wrong with the entire mindset of those people. Giving your fellow citizens healthcare somehow infringes on your “liberty”? Give me a fucking break. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/17 "2012-04-07T14:33:57Z")
I’ve been severely disappointed with his record on civil liberties. I’ve been generally content with his foreign policy overall, and have been pleased with his efforts on domestic issues. Given that where he has lagged it has been due to a) mindless Republican opposition, b) a misguided effort by Obama to cooperate with Republicans, or c) carrying over practices from the prior administration, I would be a fool to vote for a Republican in order to move things in the direction I want them to go. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/18 "2012-04-07T14:45:08Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > This. The Republicans are thugs, fools, bigots and raving lunatics. As things are I’d _never_ vote for a Republican for anything; anything that makes their party more powerful is a bad idea at this point. And like it or not in practical terms it’s Obama or a Republican. I despise him, but I’ll still vote for him even though he’s not even all that lesser of an evil. This. I no longer believe Obama is even a moderate Democrat, if you look hard at what he’s done, he’s basically a Reagan Republican, and the banks own him like they own almost all the Democrats. And bad as that is … and it IS bad … he isn’t a modern Republican, i.e., espousing policies that are stupid tinged with crazy. The current Republicans are just fucking crazy, there’s no nice way to put it that’s also accurate, so I’m forced to vote for Obama in pure self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/19 "2012-04-07T15:15:48Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > I know drone strikes are held to be indefensible, but I don’t really see the difference between drone strikes on suspected terrorists and dropping bombs from an airplane on suspected terrorists. In either case, the suspected terrorists have some trivial funding compared to the budget of the US military. The only difference with drones is that there is even less chance of a member of the US military being killed (which would already be a negligible number). I think the former is a preferable scenario. I agree that there is little, if any difference. Which is why I’m against both. But the fact is, drones make the process too easy, and hence allow the prez to get away with shit that he wouldn’t ordinarily be able to. As for the OP… I’m not thrilled with Obama’s record, but I can’t see that Romney would be any better. In fact, Romney seems to have no principles other than “do whatever it takes to get elected”, and that’s kinda scary. It won’t be a difficult decision for me to vote for Obama again, even if he has fallen short of what I’d like to see the president do. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2012, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068/20 "2012-04-07T15:28:08Z")
I voted for Obama in 2008 with reasonable expectations. I didn’t think Obama was the Messiah. And I didn’t think McCain was the Anti-Christ. I felt Obama was the better of the two realistic options available and, looking back on his first term, I still think that’s true. Obama also appears to be the best realistic option we’ll have in 2012 so I expect to vote for him again. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-obama-voters-feel-about-his-record-on-foreign-policy-and-civil-liberties/618068.md?page=2)