# How do passports work? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 19, 2009, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960 "2009-01-19T07:21:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/41 "2009-01-21T05:42:31Z")
Some historical perspective - A friend has her grandfather’s British passport, interesting in that it was issued in 1896 and consists of a single piece of paper, basically a printed form with wording similar to the bit in the front of the current passport, the holder’s name “& wife” written in, and hand signed by the Foreign Secretary (who at the time was her great-grandfather - no worries about getting quick passport service there :D). It has a number of entry & exit stamps around the borders on the front and on the back, including a red ink “chop” from China. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/42 "2009-01-21T06:59:24Z")
> [@Galena](#): > > Actually, I think this may be not precisely correct. When I was in Sydney last year, my understanding was that the first line was customs and immigration and the second line was quarantine, which seems like a substantially different type of procedure than customs. Maybe not? Customs & Quarantine are basically handled at the same time, AIUI. Immigration is the chap who checks your passport and asks why you’re visiting Australia (or, if you’re a citizen, asks how your trip was), whilst Customs and Quarantine are the people who run the sniffer dogs over your bags, ask if you’ve got anything to declare, and then x-ray your stuff, with searches if they find something of interest or just want to keep everyone on their toes. ---
**Author:** ![mecaenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/91b2a8/32.png) [@mecaenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mecaenas)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/43 "2009-01-21T08:15:55Z")
[quote=“1920s Style “Death Ray”, post:16, topic:481960”] In Australia customs and immigration is done by one person at one desk. [/QUOTE] In my experience at every international airport, this isn’t the case. The first line of desks you go through is immigraton, where they check your identity via your passport and (for non-citizens) your eligibility to enter. Then you pickup your bags and then you go through customs. You might have thought the immigration desk handles everything because customs is generally a painless walk-through if you opt for ‘nothing to declare’ and miss out on a random search. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/44 "2009-01-21T11:03:42Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Passports are required for US citizens _returning to the US_ by air. And I believe that (unless something changes) as of June 1st, they will be required from US citizens returning by water or by land. This may be the regulation for the convenience of the immigration authorities. They can say they will only accept a passport as prima facie proof of citizenship. But suppose a person who claims to be a US citizen who has lost his passport or never had one in the first place arrives at a border crossing. Will the authorities A- Send him back. What if he cannot be sent back? B- Detain him for the rest of his life C- Allow him to prove his citizenship by any other sufficient means. Suppose the Feds have information which proves without any doubt that this person is an American citizen. For example fingerprints and other biometric data. Should Immigration not allow this person into the country because he does not have a valid passport? I have no doubt the Immigration people might go for A or B but I also have no doubt that the SCOTUS would mandate C. In other words, it may be that Immigration have a rule that _only_ a US passport is proof of US citizenship. I think that rule would be overturned by the courts who would say that a US passport may be the preferred way but you cannot reject a person who can prove their citizenship by other means. You can inconvenience them up to the point where they prove it but not outright reject them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/45 "2009-01-21T14:32:28Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > In other words, it may be that Immigration have a rule that _only_ a US passport is proof of US citizenship. I think that rule would be overturned by the courts who would say that a US passport may be the preferred way but you cannot reject a person who can prove their citizenship by other means. You can inconvenience them up to the point where they prove it but not outright reject them. Okay, so if you happen to travel with a certified copy of your birth certificate and six forms of ID, you _might_ be able to make it through Customs without being detained for at least a week. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/46 "2009-01-21T14:37:41Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > But suppose a person who claims to be a US citizen who has lost his passport or never had one in the first place arrives at a border crossing. If the person arrives by land (in a car, bus or train, or just on foot), they can say: “Go back to Canada/Mexico, go to the nearest consulate, and apply for a passport.” If the person arrives by air – well, they will find it hard to arrive by air, because the airline will want to see their passport, and will not let them board the plane if they don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/47 "2009-01-21T14:53:50Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Just to clarify, the visa means the consulate has no objection to Joe Smith entering the country but does not grant Joe Smith any right to enter the country and he can be turned back on arrival at the border for any reason or no reason. Does this really happen? Someone (average tourist) flies in to country X, immigration officials look him and his passport over, and say “no, you’re not coming in”. Is there any recourse at all for such a situation? ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/48 "2009-01-21T14:54:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, so if you happen to travel with a certified copy of your birth certificate and six forms of ID, you _might_ be able to make it through Customs without being detained for at least a week. As has been explained already, A- The primary function of a passport is proving ID before foreign governments who require passports. Although it is not its primary function it can be used for ID purposes before authorities of the issuing country and other parties, private or public. B- Americans visiting certain other countries, most notably Canada and Mexico, did not need passports. If that has changed recently I do not know but it does not change the fact that American authorities admitted other forms as proof of citizenship. C- An American citizen has an absolute right to enter the country which cannot be denied on account of any administrative hurdle. This is true of any civilized country. Authorities may rule which documents they accept as prima facie proof of citizenship but the requirement is for citizenship, not any particular document. A driver’s license authorises a person to drive a car and the law makes it illegal to drive a car on public roads without a driver’s license. The license is a requirement to drive. Nationality is what entitles a person to enter the USA, not the passport. The passport is only one way to prove citizenship. It is not a requirement. Many countries do not require passport as proof of citizenship. This includes the EU where citizens can return to their countries or any other European country with any valid form of accepted national ID. Thousands travel every day in Europe without needing a passport. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/49 "2009-01-21T15:20:03Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > This includes the EU where citizens can return to their countries or any other European country with any valid form of accepted national ID. Thousands travel every day in Europe without needing a passport. …within the Schengen zone. Whereas, the UK, an EU member, _does_ require a passport for its citizens re-entering the country from elsewhere in the EU (such a proof of citizenship may theoretically also include other forms of ID, but that would probably delay the traveller mightily). ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/50 "2009-01-21T15:26:14Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > Does this really happen? Someone (average tourist) flies in to country X, immigration officials look him and his passport over, and say “no, you’re not coming in”. Is there any recourse at all for such a situation? Yes, it does. I’ve told before the story of it happening to my cousin when she was on vacation in Miami (returning from a casino cruise, the customs officer decided that an unmarried attractive female couldn’t just be there on vacation with a dozen friends, she was there to find herself a rich gringo to marry) and to the director of Citibank for Latin America who was going to the US to spend a month giving his yearly report (Citibank was not pleased). It’s not common, but it does happen. Depending on the specific country, the recourse can go from calling your consulate while still at the port of entry to throwing lawyers at the country in question after debarking off the plane that’s taken you back out. **jjimm** , while the UK isn’t Schengen, I’ve gone through UK customs with my DNI only (I had my passport on, but in the seventeenth pocket). ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/51 "2009-01-21T15:42:59Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > Does this really happen? Someone (average tourist) flies in to country X, immigration officials look him and his passport over, and say “no, you’re not coming in”. Is there any recourse at all for such a situation? It’s more common than you might think and in general there isn’t much practical recourse. My wife (we weren’t married at the time) was denied entry to the UK a few years back, although in that case they paroled her into the country for a few days for compassionate reasons. But they gave her a piece of paper saying “be on this flight to Washington or else!” and they held her US passport for those few days. For non-citizens arriving in, say, the USA, the CBP officers have pretty wide discretion as to who they admit and who they turn away. Non-citizens don’t generally have a “right” to enter any country. I don’t want to say that there’s nothing at all that could be done through courts or whatever, because I simply don’t know for sure and this is GQ. But I am pretty sure that for Joe Q. Tourist it’s probably at lot easier just to leave than to try and fight the decision. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/52 "2009-01-21T16:32:43Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **jjimm** , while the UK isn’t Schengen, I’ve gone through UK customs with my DNI only (I had my passport on, but in the seventeenth pocket). OK, but you’re from an EU country (can’t remember which one you’re from…) that has DNIs. UK citizens don’t. Not sure what would happen if I tried to get in with just my driving licence. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/53 "2009-01-21T16:58:15Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > Does this really happen? Someone (average tourist) flies in to country X, immigration officials look him and his passport over, and say “no, you’re not coming in”. Is there any recourse at all for such a situation? The American immigration service has a long history of abuse, long before 9/11. Since the victims are non-citizens they have little or no recourse and Americans mostly do not care and believe non-citizens do not and should not have the same rights to be treated with any respect. Only once in a while immigration will abuse someone who later turns out to be a citizen and an investigation is done, promises of change are made and everything pretty much stays the same. In my many entries to the USA I have seen appalling things which I do not think you would ever see in Europe (I may be wrong). American immigration people are unneccessarily rude and confrontational and often people who are just intimidated or confused or object to the treatment end up being shipped back, sometimes after being held for a few days. In 2000 the Oregonian did a series of articles exposing all this. I doubt much has changed except for worse. > [@](#): > > [http://www.oregonlive.com/ins/index.ssf?/news/oregonian/00/12/lc\_51cultr14.frame](http://www.oregonlive.com/ins/index.ssf?/news/oregonian/00/12/lc_51cultr14.frame) > > Overwhelmed, demoralized INS develops culture of abuse, racism > > Rapid growth, poor training, low pay and little discipline create a rude, unresponsive agency > > Step into the detention and deportation section of Portland’s U.S. immigration office and enter a world of racism, sexism and questionable conduct. > > Some supervisors and offi0cers call foreigners “wets” – for “wetbacks” – and “tonks,” U.S. Border Patrol slang for the sound of a flashlight hitting an illegal immigrant’s head. Employees complain that an officer, later promoted to supervisor, tells an African American colleague and others he can’t stand “niggers and white trash.” > … > the INS is hamstrung by a decades-old culture of abuse and ineptitude evident in interviews of employees around the country and a review of thousands of pages of court records, internal documents and investigative reports. Isolation and frustration encourage values and behavior considered unacceptable in the larger society. > [http://www.oregonlive.com/ins/index.ssf?/special/current/archives/ins.frame](http://www.oregonlive.com/ins/index.ssf?/special/current/archives/ins.frame) > > Friday, December 15, 2000 > » Series: Reformers see no quick or easy fix for troubled INS > » Rejected foreigners have no voice in changing system > » Fixing the INS: Issues and recommendations > » INS joins settlement of suit by woman > > Thursday, December 14, 2000 > » Series: Overwhelmed INS develops culture of abuse > » Co-workers’ intolerance freezes out immigrant inspector > » Service-minded inspector shows employees can thrive > > Wednesday, December 13, 2000 > » Series: Asylum seekers greeted with jail > » Speedy deportation power seen as dangerous > > Tuesday, December 12, 2000 > » Series: Immigration law splinters families > > Monday, December 11, 2000 > » Series: INS blundering creates “agency from Hell” > » INS corruption tops law-enforcement agencies > » Congressional acts move the INS, sometimes > > Sunday, December 10, 2000 > » Series: Unchecked power of INS shatters American dream > » Ex-lawmaker watches reforms exceed intent > » Prisons: Conditions severe even for jails > > Wednesday, October 25, 2000 > » Family split by INS reunited > > Saturday, October 21, 2000 > » INS report highlights disarray, isolation > > Friday, October 6, 2000 > » Portland INS broke agency rules, officials say > > Saturday, September 30, 2000 > » INS finds strip-search at PDX was justified > > Wednesday, September 27, 2000 > » INS may allow deported mother to return > > Friday, September 22, 2000 > » Change in Portland INS office will reach overseas, chief says > > Wednesday, September 20, 2000 > » INS’ Beebe leaves; boss apologizes > » Mayor Katz’ statement on Beebe’s retirement > > Tuesday, September 19, 2000 > » Portland INS chief will retire > » INS separates mother, child > > Sunday, September 17, 2000 > » Report due Tuesday on Beebe, INS office > > Friday, September 15, 2000 > » INS reverses deportation of Guatemalan woman > > Tuesday, September 12, 2000 > » INS may take action on inquiry next week > > Saturday, September 9, 2000 > » Chinese woman files $500,000 federal claim > > Thursday, September 7, 2000 > » INS team scrutinizing Portland office > > Sunday, September 3, 2000 > » INS search of traveler exposes rift > > Saturday, September 2, 2000 > » INS gets acting port director in Portland > > Wednesday, August 30, 2000 > » Confidence in Beebe gone, say lawmakers > > Tuesday, August 29, 2000 > » Beebe keeps post; INS reviews his leadership > > Sunday, August 27, 2000 > » Beebe: ‘I have to be who I am’ > > Saturday, August 26, 2000 > » INS chief thinks officers erred > > Friday, August 25, 2000 > » Outrage leads INS to plan meeting > > Thursday, August 24, 2000 > » INS official comes under attack > > Wednesday, August 23, 2000 > » INS wrongfully jails business traveler > > Thursday, July 20, 2000 > » Portland INS faces review of operations > » Multnomah County panel finishing its own inquiry > > Saturday, July 15, 2000 > » Complaints about airport INS persist > > Saturday, July 8, 2000 > » Immigrant receives $11,456 from INS in servitude case > > Wednesday, June 7, 2000 > » INS touts its reforms in checking foreigners > » Judges debate bail ban on detainees being deported > > Saturday, June 3, 2000 > » INS meeting stirs up questions > > Thursday, June 1, 2000 > » INS eases stance on foreigners at PDX > > Wednesday, May 31, 2000 > » INS slashes ‘lifer’ detainee numbers > > Friday, May 12, 2000 > » Judge releases woman held by INS since 1997 > > Tuesday, May 2, 2000 > » City may extend rose to foreigners put in jail by INS > > Friday, April 28, 2000 > » U.S. immigration agency vows to change its image > > Thursday, April 27, 2000 > » INS makes bad press for Oregon in Japan > > Tuesday, April 25, 2000 > » South Korean recalls ordeal in the hands of Portland INS > > Sunday, April 16, 2000 > » Ambitions hit a dead end in detention under INS > > Wednesday, April 12, 2000 > » Lawmaker seeks help on PDX visa issue > > Thursday, April 6, 2000 > » INS hurting airport’s image, Port officials say > > Monday, February 14, 2000 > » Immigrant faces deportation under tough INS laws > > Thursday, February 10, 2000 > » Gorton asks Immigration Service about visa rules ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/54 "2009-01-23T03:28:23Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > Does this really happen? Someone (average tourist) flies in to country X, immigration officials look him and his passport over, and say “no, you’re not coming in”. Is there any recourse at all for such a situation? As noted by previous posters, it happens fairly often. Some countries make it easier (i.e. more subject to arbitrary decisions by border officials without any recourse) than others (where you may be allowed to appeal the decision before you’re booted back out). One of the reasons airlines and other transportation companies try to make sure that you have a valid passport, with a valid visa if required, is because they are usually on the hook for the cost of sending you back if this happens and the immigration authorities decide they were not thorough enough in checking your documents, and may be penalized if they are deemed to be repeatedly lax in doing so. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/55 "2009-01-23T03:45:04Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > …within the Schengen zone. Nope. No passport is required within the EU for EU citizens. States that aren’t part of the Schengen agreement simply maintain border controls. > [@](#): > > Whereas, the UK, an EU member, does require a passport for its citizens re-entering the country from elsewhere in the EU If the UK asks a passport for its nationals, it’s probably because the UK doesn’t have an ID card. Maybe a British citizen needs a passport to enter the UK, but being French, I don’t need one. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/56 "2009-01-23T04:27:28Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > …within the Schengen zone. > > Whereas, the UK, an EU member, _does_ require a passport for its citizens re-entering the country from elsewhere in the EU (such a proof of citizenship may theoretically also include other forms of ID, but that would probably delay the traveller mightily). Except from Ireland. pdts ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960/57 "2009-01-23T17:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sailor] The American immigration service has a long history of abuse, long before 9/11. Since the victims are non-citizens they have little or no recourse and Americans mostly do not care and believe non-citizens do not and should not have the same rights to be treated with any respect. Only once in a while immigration will abuse someone who later turns out to be a citizen and an investigation is done, promises of change are made and everything pretty much stays the same. In my many entries to the USA I have seen appalling things which I do not think you would ever see in Europe (I may be wrong). American immigration people are unneccessarily rude and confrontational and often people who are just intimidated or confused or object to the treatment end up being shipped back, sometimes after being held for a few days. [/QUOTE] The embassy people are much worse. Put me off visiting the States. Which is a pity, since I enjoyed my trip immensly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-passports-work/481960.md?page=2)