Although secretly I love being agreed with, I need to pick on a couple of your points:
Having access to your mother’s [larger] car was a luxury that few in poverty really have (except for the poor that live near me). It’s a bit disingenuous to not acknowledge that you could take advantage of that opportunity because of the resources you’re mother provided. There were no doubt people poorer than you that saw the set first but couldn’t get it home.
This too. It’s easy to look back and forget the ways in which your support network helped. Each of those “free” things had a value. Such that without your family, you would have had to buy/rent those items. And this is where generational poverty really comes into play. Something has simple has having your parents look after your kid once in a while is a huge resource. It was kind of sad reading that article about what being poor means when she says,
Sure, that world was the east coast of Canada where unemployment was always high, well over this crippling 9% the US faces (I think right now it’s around 9.2%). We had the largest number of university grads per capita but no industry. All those great jobs with lots of benefits you talk so fondly didn’t exist for us.
I love how anyone that disagrees with you has to have a strange right wing brain and be a condescending jerk. Can’t we just blame all the problems the poor face on phone calls?
Well, sure, and it’s not “forgotten” - our family is tight, and I’ve paid it forward as I’ve become more stable. And, trust me, no one would have wanted those chairs. They were ugly, the padding was crushed and they were of a unique polyester that could sand your skin off if you slid down in them. But they were free.
But, unless you’re really talking about bottom of the barrel poor, like the homeless, everyone has a social support network of some kind. For many, it’s a neighborhood church, which was not available to me as an atheist. Or even just a close neighborhood (which I didn’t have wither), or any number of things. Those things often make the difference when you’re poor, but it’s not like my family was loaded. Trust me, my mom was having trouble meeting the bills as well, along with most of the rest of my family. But we took care of each other, much like people lean on their church or neighbors.
I think what I’m getting at is the lack of budget skills and understanding of how money works. I had a crappy financial education growing up, and it took me quite some time as an adult to figure it out. I read lots of books about it, practiced financial discipline and made more than enough mistakes. It was hard, often depressing, work.
I got free furniture from the garbage and my mother, but when I had more money, I still didn’t go out and buy new furniture. If I did buy it, I went cheap - kitchen chairs at a thrift store in Steger were only $2 a piece. They were ugly, but they were $2. And I still don’t spend money - like I said, I still have the dresser, and the kitchen chairs, and the pots and pans I bought at a garage sale when I was somewhat less broke 13 years ago. My husband and I sit on a futon I got from my cousin for $25 (along with a $100 new cushion). I shop at KMart and haven’t bought bath towels in 10 years.
But I don’t think I would be in the position I am now - moving toward investment property and paying off all consumer debt - if I hadn’t done those things. All along the way, I have been careful at spending money and incurring debt.
I don’t know how to provide those lessons to the generational poor. I know that my daughter’s high school has a nine-week required course on how money works, which is a great thing. I also think that many things that are considered necessary are really just luxuries, and I don’t know how to redefine that for people. I think that, yes, a TV and A/C are luxuries. But when you manage your money, you can dig out and get to a point where you can have 2 TVs and a new couch, without dooming yourself and your children to poverty. And then when your daughter moves out, she can have your old TV, which gives them a leg up and so on.
I think what was meant was if you start out NOW as a teller and dream of getting a VP position later - that’s basically impossible. If you started out as a teller decades before and is now a high-level manager - it wouldn’t be as difficult to reach VP level.
What’s weird about this statement is that I’ve been hiring and managing low income workers for a while now, and very few of them want to go from teller to VP.
I would love to promote from within and give guys leadership roles, but they don’t always want it. Granted, nine times of out ten, moving into a leadership role means moving into a salaried position that will require more hours.
To continue with your analogy: a “teller at a bank” is an hourly position, let’s say they’re getting $11 an hour for 32 hour weeks. All of the guys I hire work two jobs (a few have three).
Becoming a manager would be a salaried position but they’re more likely to work 50 hour weeks, which means they can’t have the second job.
So right now they make $36k a year at the two jobs, and aren’t going to take a pay cut to $30k a year for a managerial position.
To me, the move to management was a no brainer, it’s why I was okay starting at the bottom for very little money and working my ass off. I took the promotion and ended up working 80 hours weeks until I got promoted again.
A good friend of mine works consulting for Accenture. He was making boat loads of money early on because their projects are so insane he could bank tons of overtime. After doing a good job for a few years they wanted him in management, but the salary was actually lower than his [old+overtime], and he’d probably work more hours. The corporate policy was to either move up or move out, so he took the promotion and was miserable for about two years before he was able to move up away from that grind. Now he’s better off than his original position, and on track to continue moving up.
In some cases yes, it would be impossible. If the money brought in does not adequately cover housing, utilities, and toiletries how in the hell are people supposed to save any money at all? And if they do save $500 then their benefits – such as they are – are slashed at least $500, meaning that money now has to go towards housing, etc. rather than that couch.
On the other hand, if you have a monthly bill for renting that couch then it might be counted with “household and utility expenses”. This is yet another example of how the system perversely encourages behavior that, long-term, is not conducive to leaving poverty.
Do people need a couch? I don’t know – in some poor households the living couch becomes someone’s bed at night. Will you allow that people probably should have beds? What do YOU consider essential furniture? Or do you think no furniture at all is essential?
So… you’ve basing your view of all poor people on how you and 5 buddies acted in college? Seriously? Not the least bit biased, are you?
Being poor in college, when you have access to financial aid and, in many cases, assistance from your parents is very different than grinding poverty outside of college with no family assistance available.
Wait a minute… are you saying $5 a month is the same as $100 a month?
And no, you’re not just renting the cable modem box per month, you’re also paying for the service that allows you to use it.
The crazy thing is, I could argue your position better than you are. I mean, why shouldn’t the poor go to the public library and use their internet service instead of having one at home? (In fact, in my area they do). But that’s a relatively minor cost.
Oh, I see – you’re assuming all the poor people have big screen TVs. Funny, they don’t, at least in my neighborhood – most of us poor folk are still using broadcast, not cable, and on smaller TVs, many of which needs converter boxes to work. My TV is, oh, about 10 years old, shocking, I bought it back when I was middle class. Maybe I should give it up to make you happy, because I know if you did come into my house you’d just assume all my furniture and my TV is rented when actually they aren’t.
Not as necessary as food, no, but why do you assume they must always be rented? Do you honestly think there are that many poor people who genuinely own nothing?. You’re taking a sample and extending it to everyone who is poor. Stereotype much? :rolleyes:
Funny – when I have a bill I need to pay and no money to pay it immediately I can’t point at my “rented TV” because my TV isn’t rented. Nor do I smoke, or drink, or do drugs, or have kids. Funny, though, since I can’t seem to find work (despite a college degree and 25+ years in the work force) I am chronically short of cash.
And no, the TV isn’t on all day at my house.
I’m not sure what you’re saying here – are you saying it’s the fault of the poor people that utilities charge high reconnection fees?
If a person can’t find work for six months it’s somehow their fault for not having money to pay their bills?
If you don’t have money you don’t have money. Then suddenly it’s not just a matter of paying that month or two of bills when you finally get money, it’s having to pay hundreds of dollars just to get to the point where you can start paying that money owed.
In my area there are certain legal limits to how low the heat can be set. And we still have people freeze to death over the winter. But that’s OK with you, right, because they’re saving money? Never mind the problem associated with the ill, elderly, and disabled.
I’m surprised you didn’t suggest replacing all those old incandescent bulbs with CFL or even LED… of course, that does present the problem of those energy efficient bulbs being 10-20 times more expensive… so how do the poor save up the initial purchase cost?
Since part of your ability to borrow is dependent upon your ability to pay money back, in fact having less money makes you automatically less credit-worthy than someone with more money even if you the poor person have no debt at all.
When I was laid off in 2007 I had a credit rating in the 800’s and no debt. Right, no debt at all. Now, despite NOT acquiring any debt in the meanwhile (except for replacing my car tires, which I paid off, thank you very much) I couldn’t borrow money to save my life.
In other words, you condemn them for using the only alternative they have. Nice job. :rolleyes:
When the tires on my car became so worn that the steel belts were emerging through the sidewalls I had to replace them immediately or not have a drivable car. At the time, I absolutely had to have a car because it was a condition of my employment. I did not have the ~$200 needed to immediately replace them, yet I had to, because while I could walk the five miles to home my disabled spouse was not physically able to do that.
What, under those circumstances, do you think I should have done? Come on, come on – you’re the genius, how does someone without money solve that problem? What alternatives are there? Should I have abandoned my spouse at the repair shop? Given up my job since I no longer have a usable car? Or should I utilize one of the distasteful, exploitative options to get that $200 and get the damn car fixed so I can get my spouse home and go to work the next day in hopes of earning sufficient money to eventually pay off the damn loan, high interest rates and all?
What alternative would you suggest?
Again – I don’t drink, don’t smoke, don’t do drugs, don’t have kids, own my furniture… don’t have any of the money sinks you mention, yet I still didn’t have $200 to get new tires.
No, in today’s world. Which ones? What guarantees employment in the trades these days? Please tell me, I’d love to know.
Name these areas, tell me where the Land of Jobs is, I’m dying to know. It always seems to be vaguely “over there” somewhere. Be specific.
Nope. As gonzomax said:
As I said -
When I was laid off in 2007 I had NO DEBT AT ALL. All my vehicles were paid for – as was all my furniture, my TV, my computer, my clothes, everything. NOTHING on the credit card. NOTHING on the line-of-credit (didn’t own a home, so not home equity, but that’s not the only way to get a line of credit). I had an entire year’s worth of income in my bank account.
So how did I end up living on less than $1k a month?
Of course, it’s so much easier to blame the poor rather than recognize that person really can do everything “correctly” and still wind up poor. So much more comforting to think you’re magically insulated from such a fate.
So, you walked 10 to 20 miles for your groceries? Because those are the distances I’m talking about, not “gee, no store on my block”. And you were young and healthy, right? Guess the elderly and disabled can just starve in your world.
In general, people need to consume 1500-2000 calories a day to maintain a healthy body weight. Especially if, as you suggest, they walk to the store instead of drive. A bag of oranges just won’t supply that.
Rice and beans is not an adequate, nutritious diet either. People need fruits and vegetables to maintain health. How can you not know that?
So… you’re holding up Tanzania as a model for the US to emulate? :rolleyes:
No, rice and beans (or lentils) are NOT a nutritious diet! Sure, they have protein and carbs, but no vitamin C, they’re deficient in other types of nutrients, if you’re talking about white rice (about 1/3 the cost of brown) you’re looking at a serious lack of fiber and B vitamins… no, really, it’s a crap diet without the fruits and vegetables.
No, the cheapest food in America is shit food. To eat a balanced, nutritious diet is more expensive than your inadequate rice and beans.
And back when I had money I worked with soup kitchens in Chicago and we didn’t have any problem getting the people there to eat vegetables and fruit. Oh, wait – we did have to consider that a lot of them had bad teeth (those that had teeth) so baked potatoes and mashed potatoes which are soft and easy to chew were quite a bit more popular than raw carrot sticks. Hard to eat apples when your teeth are falling out or gone, you know?
Around here people do ask for fruits and vegetables at the panties. Oddly enough, mangoes are in heavy demand around here. Folks ask for them.
I see you still do not understand.
First, we’re talking about America, not India. There are several social agencies that limit the number of people in a residence. For example, Section 8 housing often limits the number of people by square foot, or no more than 2 per bedroom. Social welfare/child services can dictate that four year old twins must have separate bedrooms if they aren’t the same sex, and that a young mother under 18 is not allowed to sleep in the same room as her male infant child.
So yeah, go ahead, put 6 people in a 1 or 2 bedroom apartment – if you get caught you can lose what benefits you have AND get evicted. Yeah, that’ll teach those poor people to be poor! :rolleyes:
I don’t know for sure either, but I suspect it may have to do with the high number of people with a “blame the poor, they suck” attitude.
So… the system is set up to keep people down, but somehow it’s poor peoples’ fault they’re poor? Yeah, makes sense. :rolleyes:
You don’t get it – there’s no way to save the money. Any time they save anything they’re benefits are cut down or eliminated, thereby forcing them to spend their savings on survival. They can’t get ahead unless something drastic happens – they finally get a job with a living wage. They win the lottery. They inherit some money. Something.
Well, isn’t that typicaly – blame the poor for being lazy and unimaginative, then when they finally show some initiative and engage in free enterprise you STILL aren’t happy!
on the one hand we have someone pointing out there are tent cities and millions with no income whatsoever, but some don’t care because they are doing alright.
on the other hand, we have a guy accusing that guy of being a condescending jerk for pointing all of that out.
This is incorrect. I did 5 years in the Navy, 02-07. It was a very good decision, and the main reason why I have a better job now than pretty much all my good friends in high school.
What kobal2 is describing may apply to the non-technical rates and specialties, but it’s pretty common for technical rates (in the Navy, at least) like MMs (machinist mate), EMs (electrician’s mate), and ETs (electronics technician), to get excellent jobs coming out of the Navy- like the guy I (my company) just hired; a former submarine Sonar Tech, he’s on my team (in the defense industry) earning more than 50K a year, under 30, and working 40 hours a week.
The military can be a great choice, and not just for officers.
I already told you the social services system sucks. Are you blaming that for people being poor?
Yup, the social services system sucks. But you know what, that household would still have the monthly bill for the couch rental, which means they don’t have money for food.
See, now you’re trying to have it both ways. You’re holding yourself up as one example, then flipping to other people and then back again. Which is it that you’re trying to argue? Do you want to debate why you are poor, or why other people are poor?
To answer your question, no, I don’t see furniture as essential.
Tell me something, do you really see renting furniture as a sound financial investment for someone living in poverty?
That wasn’t my point at all. But you seem to be okay basing your view of poor people by your own bias. My point was that I crunched the numbers for renting furniture and it was laughably high.
You sure about that? How do you know what I had access to?
Wait a minute, are you having trouble following the discussion?
Minor? No, not at all when you consider an orange expensive.
Am I? US census data found that 97.7 poor US households had a tv, and that 79% had cable or satellite television.
Is your neighbourhood someone emblematic of all US neighbourhoods? But I forgot that tv may be the only entertainment people have.
So how is that in any way relevant to what I was talking about?
I didn’t make that assumption, you put those words in my mouth. I simply pointed out that renting furniture is a horrible financial decision, and one that causes poor people to be poorer. Do you disagree?
Um, isn’t that what you’re going? Maybe stop rolling your eyes so much and you’ll see more clearly.
Good for you. What about someone that does rent the tv or couch?
Congrats!
No, but your computer has been.
No, I’m saying that the reconnection fee doesn’t seem to factor in to people decision process.
Who’s fault would you like it to be? Are all of the bills necessary? Could any of them be lower?
Well done.
Yes, debt cycle.
You live in a funny area.
No, that is not okay with me, but thanks for assuming it would be. Is there really no middle ground? Seriously, I’ve done this work with low income families. They come in with power bills 3 and 4 times higher than they need to be. We’d sit them down, and say, “what do you think of this, do you like paying this much for utilities?” “Are there actions you can take to lower it?”
I didn’t suggest it because it’s stupid. But putting a few cents worth of plastic on the windows, hell just closing the freakin windows will go a long way to reducing the power bill. Is that too much to ask? Is it wrong to suggest turning lights off and closing the front door?!
Not what you said, you mentioned credit scores. If your score was 800 before it will be 800 after. But you are right, a person without income shouldn’t get a loan, nor should they take out a loan. Because like you said, when it comes time to paying that back they have to work that much harder. So then why take out a loan to buy a couch?
Maybe you should roll your eyes more.
Why didn’t you just rent a car? Then you wouldn’t have that as an asset to count against you. Wasn’t that your reasoning for renting furniture?
You should have included “cost of repairs” with “cost of owning a car.” All cars need new tires, you were singled out or picked on. That’s not unique. The $200 for tires should have been set aside before other expenses. It’s part of money management. And I hate to be the one to tell you this but your car is going to need more work soon, that’s how cars are.
Wait, now what are you talking about? You have a job, you don’t have a job, which is it? If you have a job that requires a car, you need to factor in the cost of owning the car. It means your salary is effectively lower because you have to set aside a part of each paycheck for future repairs. Your car is going to needs gas as well, what happens if you don’t have enough money for that? You have to have insurance too, and hopefully you’re not driving around on bald tires without it.
Only if your job pays enough to justify all that, which is doesn’t sound like it does.
There are no guarantees in life, not sure why you thought there would be. But if you go to Craig’s list, and look at the job postings, you’ll see what skilled trades are being hired. You’ve got a degree so you can already to some work, it’s not like your unemployable.
You can be as specific as you want, just look at Craig’s List. North Dakota as one example needs people, as does Utah. A simple internet search will show you areas with the lowest unemployment.
No one is insulated. But something in your case is off if you couldn’t find something within a year. If you really want we can run through your personal scenario, which is now two years too late.
Looking back though, if you now live on $1k a month ($12k a year) your year’s worth of salary should have lasted a lot longer.
Are you fucking kidding me? You live 20 miles from a grocery store? I can tell you right there what you’ve got so many problems, and why your tires are so bald.
If they’re 20 miles from a grocery store? And no, I provide food for meals on wheels which delivers the stuff to their door.
A bag of oranges isn’t suppose to supply that, I’m not sure why you keep saying that. Ramen noodles aren’t the answer either.
I do know that, which is why I get annoyed by people that eat ramen noodles. You do know those aren’t adequate for nutrition either right? Rice and beans/lentils provide lots of nutrition at a very low cost, and can easily be combined with enough fruits and vegetables to meet requirements. Or are you suggesting people should eat ramen noodles?
You’d really have an easier time reading if you didn’t roll your eyes so much. If you saw how the poor lived in Tanzania a lot of this would make a lot more sense to you.
Wow, you packed a lot of ignorance into a small package. Beans (kidney in particular) contain plenty of vitamin C, along with tons of fiber, carbs and protein, iron and folate, as well as a host of other vitamins. Not to say you shouldn’t also eat fruits an vegetables, but you certainly don’t need a bag or oranges.
Not by much, and certainly better than wasting money on ramen noodles.
Yes, I do know that, which is why I make a lot of apple sauce.
Are you in India? Otherwise I have no idea why people at a pantry would ask for mangos. That is exactly the kind of choice you should NOT be making. The damn things are shipped half way around the world, and with that giant pit have an extremely poor yield.
Um, didn’t I say four people in a two bedroom apartment? Divide 4 by 2 is 2 per bedroom right?
Sounds like an issue to take up with social services. Do they also specify the size of the room?
Do you get headaches frequently? You roll your eyes a lot. And you’re also very obsessed with benefits.
You mean the social services system that provides money to the poor? That one?
The point of savings is to not need the benefits. Although we all seem to agree the benefits system sucks. Good luck trying to overhaul that.
Win the lottery? That would require playing the lottery. Which would require having extra cash to buy tickets. I can’t imagine someone in poverty buying lottery tickets, where would they get the money?
HA We were providing nutritious food free of charge, and it was used to buy cigarettes. But you see that as being imaginative?
So is it your position that we can’t blame the poor or anything? Nothing their fault? Ever?
Ditto. 5 years in the Army here. I got electronics training and the GI bill and now I’m an electrical engineer. I have a buddy who was a mechanic in the Army who is now getting his master’s degree in mechanical engineering.
That’s where a lot of people get their “vocational training”. A lot of mechanics and welders and electricians (and IT folks) got their start in the military.
I heard over 50% of the medical technicians (people who operate X-ray machines and blood work labs and whatnot) learned those skills in the military, and they are in high demand and paid well. Even the people with the lowest ASVAB scores who are forced into the infantry or artillery learn to work hard and show up on time, which is probably more than they started out with.
The military confers a HUGE step up for those who can do it. But, it certainly isn’t a universally accessible option.
Unemployment is closer to 20 percent when you include those who have fallen off unemployment, quit looking for work or are woefully lower employed than they should be. There are about 8 job seekers for every job opening. When a restaurant hires, it has people lined around the blocks trying to apply.
You presume to give life lessons to the little people who can learn so much from you.
Wit of EMCNIGHT
Don’t have a TV
Don’t have internet
Don’t have a car, walk everywhere you can.
Don’t rent furniture
Don’t have kids
'Don’t smoke
Don’t buy lottery
Don’t let your utilities shut off, then you wont have a reconnection fee. That is so easy .
Don’t get old or sick
Move to North Dakota
Walk to stores .
Turn off the lights and put plastic over windows.
Turn the heat down, that assumes you have it on high.
The imagination and understanding of the lot of the poor, is underwhelming.
Get a technical degree, even though they have a high unemployment rate
Thanks for the deep and thoughtful understanding of the little pepole who just don’t live properly.
Are you expecting people to go to their landlord and say “I’m paying $100 less a month for rent because emacknight says I need to conserve my resources”? Maybe people can just disconnect the heat and freeze to death in the winter, because sure as hell the utility companies aren’t lowering their rates for anyone? Maybe they can stop using toilet paper altogether and just wipe with their left hands?
I mentioned basic costs of living in that paragraph, not luxuries. Tell me how a poor person is supposed to “lower the cost” of such basics. In detail.
That’s always your final answer, isn’t it? “Your system sucks – so you deserve it.” Aren’t you overflowing with compassion?
No, I’m not blaming it for making people poor, I’m blaming it for KEEPING people poor… and then blaming the poor for being stripped of the resources they need to climb out of the hole, and then on top of that being blamed for being poor.
The thing is, 1/6 of the US don’t even have the money to buy food – that’s why they’re on food stamps. But if they saved up a few hundred dollars they’d be booted off the food stamp program, but still not have sufficient funds to really support themselves.
I’m not arguing anything in that paragraph I asked you a direct question.
OK, you answered that. You find it acceptable for poor people to own nothing and sleep on bare floors. I disagree with you but hey, it’s your opinion.
I guess the next question is do you think people should be reduced to that level of destitution before getting help, or do you see any merit in helping them before things get that bad?
No – but on the other hand there is no way for them to save sufficient funds to obtain decent furniture, either. So while I disagree with the action I, unlike you, have some understanding of WHY they make those choices rather than just saying “Hur, hur – those poor people are STEWPID, they deserve what they get.”
Unless you were an orphan with absolutely no relatives, kicked out of foster care, and living in a country that offers absolutely zero assistance to stupids I assume you have some help, yes. Were you a friendless orphan in a country that gives no value to education, then?
Yes, TV of some sort, they don’t specify big screen or new or even color as opposed to black and white. It’s actually pretty damn easy to get a piece of crap old TV these days. Heck, there are people who give them away but maybe you think poor people shouldn’t accept gives.
You are also ignoring the fact that in many cases poor people haven’t always been poor. Again, quite a few of those TVs in poor households could have been purchased when there was more money coming into the household. You just ASSUME that because this poor family over here has a TV it has to be a rented one, or something they’ve recently purchased.
It’s relevant because if you walked into my house you’d just assume I rented my furniture and appliances rather than owning them. Your own prejudice is glaringly obvious because you will NOT consider the possibility that a poor person might have purchased outright their possessions during a prior time of fiscal plenty. You are convinced all poor people are stupid, lazy, in debt, uneducated, and with no job history despite direct evidence to the contrary.
Some poor people – millions of them in fact – used to be middle class just a few years ago. But don’t let that fact interfere with your comforting illusions.
I’m wondering who all those people are, because I have never met such a person. Really, I have never known a person who did that.
Oh, wait – I do know of people who rent furnished apartments, but there the furnishings are included as part of the rent of the overall unit. Not my way of doing things, but hey, whatever.
But these people who you claim rent all their furniture and TV’s from some third party? I don’t think I’ve met them. The rental stores near me rent stuff like garden equipment. Wait, there is the rent to own store, but that’s much more like buying something in installments. After you make X number of payments you own the stuff. That’s not what you’re talking about, is it?
Nope. It was off most of the day while I was out looking for a better job. I just type really fast so it looks like I’ve spent a lot of time out here, but not really.
Knowing there is a reconnection fee does not somehow magically create money that you don’t have to pay the overdue bill.
What if they can’t be lower? What then? You just tell people “Sucks to be you!” and walk away?
I live in an area where human beings think it’s wrong to let other human being freeze to death in the middle of winter. Where do you live?
And you assume this is ALWAYS something that can be lowered… but sometimes it’s not. Poor people can’t afford to improve the insulation in their homes – even they were even permitted to do that, because I don’t know any landlords who approve of DIY efforts by their tenants. Sure, you can put plastic over windows but that doesn’t lower the per unit cost of gas for heating, or electricity.
Again, who leaves the door open all winter? Seriously? Aside from it being freakin’ cold, it’s not safe.
My car was owned free and clear – it was cheaper to keep it than renting one. Or is my practical and sensible approach messing up your prejudices again?
When I purchased the car in 2002 I was earning $50k a year easily. I would have laughed, written a check for $200, and been done with it had I needed new tires then.
But then 5 years later I lost that job – how was I suppose to foresee that? Are you now blaming me for not being able to see the future?
Before what? Before housing? Before food? Before the medicine for my diabetic spouse? What part of I don’t have the money are you failing to grasp?
Actually, aside from a new air filter no, it’s not. Of course, I expect you to assume I’m incompetent when it comes to cars, maintenance, and mechanical things in general but in fact I’m pretty darn handy.
I never said I was unemployed. I said I was laid off in 2007, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t worked at all in 4 years. The problem is that I haven’t been able to obtain full time, permanent work at anything near my prior levels. The longest I’ve been UNemployed during that time was about four months, but I sure as heck have been UNDERemployed. There have been long stretches where all I’ve been able to get is part time work at minimum wage. This has definitely contributed to my financial issues, which is why I keep looking for better work but so far no luck.
Do you REALLY think I am that stupid, not to know all that? Could you be just a LITTLE more condescending? I don’t think you’ve quite reached the ultimate level of that.
You also have no clue that “borrowing money for gas” is in a whole different league than “borrowing $200 for new tires”. $5 of gas can get me through a whole week, and sometimes people will just GIVE you $5… but nobody hands out $200 on a whim.
And yes, I’ve maintained my car insurance all this time, thank you very much for asking. But I suppose you think I should have dumped the insurance and used the premium money for new tires, right? Because how else would I be able to lower to costs of car ownership?
At the time it was the only job I could find, and at least I could afford to buy toilet paper and gas money to get to interviews for better work. Or should I have just stayed home? What do you think?
You see, I haven’t given up yet. I keep trying. But that requires money, at least a little bit of money coming in the door.
Also, if you don’t work at all and don’t keep looking for work they can cut your benefits off, too. Which would leave me with nothing, not a roof over my head nor food to eat, so what choice do I have?
No, I’m not unemployable, that why I have what work I do, but if a person with a college degree and 25+ years of experience can only find part time work at crap wages what do you think someone coming out of training program with zero actual experience is going to get?
Again – I know tradesmen with decades of experience who have been UNemployed longer than I’ve been getting by on crap jobs.
And if everyone looking for work moved to North Dakota that state’s unemployment rate would skyrocket because there just aren’t enough jobs for all the people in the US who need work right now.
There is also the problem of how to get to North Dakota. If someone doesn’t have a reliable car and has no income and no savings how the hell are they supposed to get to North Dakota? Do you think transportation across the country is free?
[quote=emacknight]
No one is insulated. But something in your case is off if you couldn’t find something within a year. If you really want we can run through your personal scenario, which is Hell no, I don’t want someone as unsympathetic as YOU to “run through” my personal finances. Are you nuts? How about I just hand you a baseball bat and let you hit me upside the head a few times?
Well, let’s see… when we didn’t qualify for state medical insurance it cost about $800 a month for my spouse’s medication – or maybe I should have just let him lapse into a coma and die, perhaps? There have been car repairs on occasion. Doctor visits that had to be paid out of pocket. Helping my dad out when mom was dying… maybe I should have just abandoned my parents as too expensive?
You find it more comforting to think something is “off” in my case rather than consider the notion that, as I said, someone can do everything right and still wind up poor. I understand that, by thinking you only need to avoid X or Y you can stay safe but the real world isn’t like that. No one can anticipate everything, and no one has complete control over their lives.
Even if someone can budget to live on 1k a month there will always be unexpected expenses to help bleed away the money.
More like 10, but yes – I guess you’re a city boy if you think 10 or 20 miles to get to the store is so unusual. I’m right on the edge of rural farms here, 10 or 20 miles away is considered close by some of the folks around here.
Where do you live, that that would be considered such an unreasonably far and unusual distance?
I’m saying that in many parts of the US getting fruits and vegetables is not as easy as you think it is. And they cost more than rice and beans.
Cooking destroys vitamin C, so really, saying it’s in beans is pointless unless you’re suggesting that people eat raw beans. Beans and rice isn’t adequate, not by a long shot.
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I don’t about the mango thing, either – I don’t personally care for them myself – but I am just reporting the news. Mangoes are very popular here. Food pantries do try to get them, because they’re a fruit people will actually eat.
Yep, they can. They can also take the kids away if they deem there is insufficient square footage. We just had a thread on this board that discussed that, among other things.
Lottery ticket is only a dollar. That’s cheaper than a cup of coffee at Starbuck’s. Hell, you can collect that much in change just walking along the gutter.
That line always makes me cry. Some people have so many safety nets and others have so few. Worse, the ones with all the safety nets tend to be the people who don’t even realize it. Sometimes I think we’d all be poor if we had to live with every single consequence of the choices we made as teens.
You’re being too generous. I totally agree that kids cost a lot of
money and can be a cause of poverty, but they still don’t fit in
emack’s list. At the end of that post he said that we need to look at
the way poor people waste money; feeding your kid is not wasting money.
Yes, of course kids cost money and having kids as a teenager makes you more likely to be poor. Is this really worth saying? Do kids fit in a list of drugs and luxury habits?
I meant that, because the amount you spend is pretty much the same regardless of your income, you can be spending less than your employed friends and still be spending a higher proportion of your income.
No, it says, outright, that poor people spend 9% of their income on the lottery. It doesn’t say ‘up to 9%’ or ‘of those who gamble.’
It would mean quite a lot, but your cites don’t actually show that the majority of poor people spend as much as that, which is 5%, not 9%, BTW.
No way in hell does the average poor person spend 10% of their income on gambling. That is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard asserted on this board.
I mean, where are they going to find the money for all their drugs, tobacco, alcohol and big-screen TVs?
Do people really rent furniture? I’ve never heard of that. Over here we get hand-me downs, go to freecycle, buy secondhand or rent a place that’s part- or fully-furnished. Renting furniture?