# How do people feel about Jeff Flake speaking out against Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 25, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783 "2017-10-25T04:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/1 "2017-10-25T04:39:19Z")
> **[Opinion | Enough](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/enough--it-is-time-to-stand-up-to-trump/2017/10/24/12488ee4-b908-11e7-a908-a3470754bbb9_story.html)** > > It is time to stand up to Trump. I'm glad Flake is speaking out. I really am. But here is my concern. I think people like him made a pact with the devil, they probably thought Trump would just be some passive moron who signed any bill they passed in congress. They figured he was an ape, but an ape they could control and exploit. But their bills didn’t pass. ACA repeal failed. Even their tax bill may not pass. So they made a deal with a stupid ape, and now they have nothing to show for it. Not only that, but Flake would probably lose a primary election in AZ because he isn’t Trumpian enough. So it feels like he is speaking out which is good, but he is only speaking out after the deal with Trump fell apart and no legislation got passed, and Flake realized he wouldn’t be re-elected. Would Flake be speaking out if he was facing easy re-election in Arizona, and if Trump was mindlessly signing every Bill congress got passed through congress with no effort but Trump was still just as deranged, unstable and criminal as he is now? I don’t know, but I doubt it. Either way, it is a good improvement to see GOP senators speaking out. However, if Flake is going to continue voting with Trump 91% of the time, it doesn’t really matter what speeches he gives after he knows he will lose re-election. Also, Trump is not someone who arose out of nowhere. Decades of right wing propaganda designed to make GOP voters angry, misinformed and scared created Trump and his voters. Trump, like his voters, watches fox news all day and gets more and more angry and scared. Flake makes no mention of how he and his party have worked for decades to create this monster that, now that it is turning on them, they are starting to say ‘enough’. It was time to say enough years ago. Trump is the result of decades of the southern strategy, talk radio and fox news. He isn’t some character that arose from nowhere and he didn’t magically become a problem just now that he can’t be used to pass ACA repeal or supply side tax cuts, or he is making it hard to get re-elected. The same people who elected Trump thought Obama was an antichrist muslim born in Kenya and I didn’t hear Flake speak out against them. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/2 "2017-10-25T04:52:26Z")
Anyone going on the record against the Orange Hairy Yam is a-ok in my book. Get the words out there, and we’ll sort out the motivations later. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/3 "2017-10-25T05:59:55Z")
I’m glad he’s speaking out, but it ain’t gonna do a damn thing. He’s not a senator with a big following. He’s retiring. Because of those two things, it is easy for him to speak out since he has nothing to lose, and it’s easy for Trump supporters and those on the fence to ignore him. Call me when someone like Mark Rubio or Rand Paul or Mitch McConnell grows some cajones. I won’t be holding my breath. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/4 "2017-10-25T06:12:18Z")
I don’t think Flake made a deal with the devil. He was on outspoken Trump critic even before last year’s election, and didn’t vote for him. (This, according to one-or-another of the many news articles I saw today.) ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/5 "2017-10-25T09:47:39Z")
I’m wondering if Arizona voters are going to vote for crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/6 "2017-10-25T10:02:08Z")
Good speech. Better delivery than McCain’s one at the Health Care Vote-a-Rama. Unfortunately, not Reagan/Bill Clinton level delivery, so I don’t know that it will have much effect. I think the main thing that can come from this is the ability for Democrats to ask Republicans to find any similar events during Obama’s tenure. ---
**Author:** ![lawoot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/35a633/32.png) [@lawoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lawoot)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/7 "2017-10-25T10:30:15Z")
> [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](#): > > I’m wondering if Arizona voters are going to vote for crazy. My mother, a lifetime moderate Republican, lives in Arizona, and didn’t vote for Flake because she thought he was PART of the crazy. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/8 "2017-10-25T10:42:48Z")
Good speech, but he keeps voting for Trump’s agenda (see the recent Wells Fargo malarkey) as does Corker. When he starts putting his votes where his mouth is, I’ll take him a little more seriously; otherwise, he remains part of the underlying problem. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/9 "2017-10-25T10:44:30Z")
Fine speech. Last night he voted in favor of killing a rule that allows for class action suits against banks and against the disaster relief bill in response to the hurricanes. So who gives a shit how much he’s mad at Trump if he just keeps voting his agenda right down the line anyway. Real brave, Jeff. _ninja’d_ ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/10 "2017-10-25T11:43:36Z")
I think it’s GREAT that some mainstream conservatives are openly repudiating Trump. I just wish Flake wasn’t wimping out while talking tough. If he wants to fight Trump, he can do more in the Senate than outside it. He should run for re-election, even if he knows he may lose. His speech was nice, but so what? Trump has beaten him. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/11 "2017-10-25T11:54:47Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think the main thing that can come from this is the ability for Democrats to ask Republicans to find any similar events during Obama’s tenure. “They’re all in lockstep! That just proves the librul hive mind is real!” ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/12 "2017-10-25T12:59:26Z")
To me, Flake’s comments boil down to complaints about style. He is perfectly fine voting the GOP agenda, he just doesn’t like what he sees as the nasty behavior. He would much rather everyone keep promoting and voting for awful things, but do it with a congenial manner. That’s about it. He really is blind to how he is and has been a foot-soldier in this particular army for years. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/13 "2017-10-25T13:14:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > But here is my concern. > > I think people like him made a pact with the devil, they probably thought Trump would just be some passive moron who signed any bill they passed in congress. They figured he was an ape, but an ape they could control and exploit. As an aside, I have literally never heard anyone express anything like this sentiment. It’s quite clear that a good number of Republicans passively went along with Trump during the election simply because of three factors: Trump was the party’s nominee; the alternative was Hillary; and they were scared of being against him. The idea that any Republican thought Trump would take office and be led around by the nose by Congress is just totally out-of-step with what I can quite confidently say that any Republican circles were thinking about Trump. If anything, they thought that Trump could be tamed by having a good Cabinet of people who knew what they were doing – and as it turns out, only a few Cabinet picks even fit that pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/14 "2017-10-25T13:15:08Z")
Colbert summed it up for me. > [@Colbert](#): > > “Why is it that Republicans only speak up against Donald Trump when they know they’re not running for reelection?” Colbert said. “They finally grow a set. Then they say, ‘I’m taking my balls and going home.’” [Link.](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/stephen-colbert-jeff-flake_us_59f02b18e4b0bf1f8836ba10?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/15 "2017-10-25T13:20:27Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > To me, Flake’s comments boil down to complaints about style. > > He is perfectly fine voting the GOP agenda… You’d almost think he was a Republican or something! It’s good when Republicans speak out against Trump. Demanding “purity” when doing so is sacrificing the good on the alter of the perfect. If you want everyone to become a Democrat, you’ll be waiting a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/16 "2017-10-25T13:22:22Z")
I think its fun to watch him and Corker position themselves for a Primary run as “reasonable Republicans” If Trump goes down hard (and its possible) the Republicans left standing will be the ones that took a stance against him. And I sort of wonder if this is a little about “I don’t have to put up with this shit, and I don’t want to face a challenge to keep my seat” and a little about “what I’ve heard in Russia hearings means I’ve decided to distance myself so I continue to have a career.” ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/17 "2017-10-25T13:41:21Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Also, Trump is not someone who arose out of nowhere. Decades of right wing propaganda designed to make GOP voters angry, misinformed and scared created Trump and his voters. Trump, like his voters, watches fox news all day and gets more and more angry and scared. Flake makes no mention of how he and his party have worked for decades to create this monster that, now that it is turning on them, they are starting to say ‘enough’. In Flake’s defense, that’s the central theme of [his book](https://www.amazon.com/Conscience-Conservative-Rejection-Destructive-Principle/dp/0399592911) (which put the final nail in his political career). I don’t know if he goes back decades but he seems clear on how Trump happened: > [@](#): > > [With hindsight](http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/07/31/my-party-is-in-denial-about-donald-trump-215442), it is clear that we all but ensured the rise of Donald Trump. > > I will let the liberals answer for their own sins in this regard. (There are many.) But we conservatives mocked Barack Obama’s failure to deliver on his pledge to change the tone in Washington even as we worked to assist with that failure. It was we conservatives who, upon Obama’s election, stated that our No. 1 priority was not advancing a conservative policy agenda but making Obama a one-term president—the corollary to this binary thinking being that his failure would be our success and the fortunes of the citizenry would presumably be sorted out in the meantime. It was we conservatives who were largely silent when the most egregious and sustained attacks on Obama’s legitimacy were leveled by marginal figures who would later be embraced and legitimized by far too many of us. It was we conservatives who rightly and robustly asserted our constitutional prerogatives as a co-equal branch of government when a Democrat was in the White House but who, despite solemn vows to do the same in the event of a Trump presidency, have maintained an unnerving silence as instability has ensued. To carry on in the spring of 2017 as if what was happening was anything approaching normalcy required a determined suspension of critical faculties. And tremendous powers of denial. Flake is a stock Republican and, in any election, I would almost certainly be opposed to him over the Democrat and find many of his ideas misguided or perhaps even offensive. But he’s right about the root causes of Trump’s rise to power. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/18 "2017-10-25T13:47:53Z")
I appreciate anyone speaking up against this tyrant wannabe, especially when it comes from his own party. But Trump’s main base of loyal supporters will see it as another win, and draining the swamp. One thing Trump is not, is an honorable man. He’s a first-rate scoundrel and carni-barker, con-man, misoygynist, pathological liar, cheat, fraud, blow-hard authoritarian, possibly a sociopath, difficult to find any good in him. And did I mention he’s not a very nice person? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/19 "2017-10-25T13:48:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Ravenman** : > > As an aside, I have literally never heard anyone express anything like this sentiment. I have, right here on this board. Most of the Trump supporters here, aside from the ones who just want the entertainment value of watching the world burn, have given this as their reason for supporting him: They don’t care that he’s crazy, as long as he signs the bills the Republican congress puts on his desk. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/20 "2017-10-25T14:23:55Z")
I think that’s it. As long as he nominates judges who will stop the baby-killin’ and the gay-marryin’ and the brown-people-toleratin’, who they think cuts their taxes and restores semi-skilled jobs, and who doesn’t try to take their guns, they can rationalize all the rest of the package to whatever extent they need to. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783.md?page=2)