# How do people feel about Jeff Flake speaking out against Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 25, 2017, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783 "2017-10-25T04:39:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/41 "2017-10-25T17:36:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Your position is that Flake is to be praised even if he limits his actions to a speech (which did not mention Trump), and even if he gave that speech after he had nothing to lose? Flake limits his actions to _ **A** _ speech? Did you just start paying attention this week? Flake’s been speaking out against Trump since the campaign last year. He wrote a book calling out Trump AND the Republican Party. He wrote a piece for Politico this summer doing the same. I understand he’s not doing enough in your opinion, but he’s been outspoken even when his colleagues weren’t, and still aren’t. \*That’s \*what I came into this thread responding to: To people claiming only Senators who have announced their retirement (or imminent death) are bold enough to call out Trump. I’m saying, Flake’s been doing so long before this week. I don’t know the inner workings of the Senate or the Republican caucus, but even if Flake is motivated by an 2020 run to knock out Trump in a primary, so what? Or maybe he’s building to something more during his final two years in the Senate. Aren’t you asking that he actually do something more than give speeches? ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/42 "2017-10-25T17:36:59Z")
Talk is cheap. If Flake was actually interested in doing something useful, he & Corker would change their registration to Independent and flip the Senate to the Democrats. But no - Flake likes the Republican plan of destroying healthcare, destroying the environment, and giving himself a massive tax cut. He just wishes Donald wasn’t so embarrassing. I don’t blame him for not wanting to waste a bunch of money on a failing re-election campaign. But I’m going to hold off on the medal until he takes some actual steps to remove Donald from power. So, whatever. Confusion to the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/43 "2017-10-25T17:59:28Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I agree with this, it is the heart of the problem. I’m glad he finally spoke out, but he did this after deciding not to run for re-election, not showing the courage he should have a long time ago. Except this isn’t true. He’s been an outspoken critic of Trump for well over 18 months now. > [@Merneith](#): > > Talk is cheap. If Flake was actually interested in doing something useful, he & Corker would change their registration to Independent and flip the Senate to the Democrats. > > But no - Flake likes the Republican plan of destroying healthcare, destroying the environment, and giving himself a massive tax cut. He just wishes Donald wasn’t so embarrassing. Yes, so? Why on earth would a healthcare destroying, environment destroying, massive-tax-cut-for-the-rich-giving conservative make a switch to give power to the party that he ideologically disagrees with? He can believe all of those repugnant things and still think Donald Asshat Trump is a shitstain on our nation who is destroying our republic in ways your average Republican would never dream of doing. It really is two things you’re pissed at here: conservative ideology AND Donald Trump. You can be a conservative AND still think Donald Trump is a reckless, pig-ignorant, boorish embarrassment. Likewise, you can applaud a Republican speaking out against Trump AND still think they’re a shitbird when it comes to ideology. Flip it for a second: What if Trump had been elected as a Democrat? Would you expect Senate Dems to suddenly abandon lefty ideals, and possibly just hand the keys of the Senate over to the Republicans? I would hope those Senate Dems would vigorously speak out against the dolt, while cautiously looking for ways to kneecap him. Which is possibly what people like Flake, Corker and McCain are doing. STOP MAKING ME DEFEND JEFF FLAKE, PEOPLE!!!🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/44 "2017-10-25T17:59:36Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > While the speech was really nice, and definitely overdue to be coming from a Republican, it would have been a lot more forceful if he hadn’t then turned right around and voted in lockstep with the rest of the GOP on the credit company arbitration bill last night. I think this view burying the lede: the story isn’t “FLAKE BECOMES A DEMOCRAT!” it is “CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN CAN’T STAND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT!” ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/45 "2017-10-25T18:15:23Z")
I missed the part when he explained why he has to stop representing Republican voters? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/46 "2017-10-25T18:18:09Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Flake limits his actions to _ **A** _ speech? Did you just start paying attention this week? Obviously I’m aware of his book since I addressed it already in our exchange. > [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Aren’t you asking that he actually do something more than give speeches? Yes, that is precisely what I am asking. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/47 "2017-10-25T18:23:33Z")
He still thinks Trump should not be impeached or 25th amendmented, so his convictions don’t mean much to me. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/48 "2017-10-25T18:26:36Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Talk is cheap. If Flake was actually interested in doing something useful, he & Corker would change their registration to Independent and flip the Senate to the Democrats. > > But no - Flake likes the Republican plan of destroying healthcare, destroying the environment, and giving himself a massive tax cut. He just wishes Donald wasn’t so embarrassing. Well, yeah. Flake is a Republican. He wants lower taxes, less regulation, thinks the ACA is a horrible mess, etc. I don’t agree with him on his stances but it should surprise no one that a senator with an (R) after his name feels that way. But he also thinks that Trump is a terrible president and leader and says that the GOP needs to take responsibility for how and why Trump is the guy carrying the Republican banner today. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/49 "2017-10-25T18:30:29Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Obviously I’m aware of his book since I addressed it already in our exchange. Well, I guess it wasn’t that obvious, because you said he limited his actions to “a” speech. > [@](#): > > Yes, that is precisely what I am asking. OK, hopefully you get your wish! I don’t know what else to say. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/50 "2017-10-25T18:48:26Z")
If you click the Youtube link there’s another video - a CNN interview with Flake - that doesn’t even ask the questions raised here, and that interview is 20 minutes. On CNN. FFS. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/51 "2017-10-25T18:54:10Z")
> [@Crybaby\_Boobie](#): > > He still thinks Trump should not be impeached or 25th amendmented, so his convictions don’t mean much to me. I didn’t vote for Trump, and think he’s hopelessly unqualified. But it doesn’t follow that he should be impeached. The Russians didn’t make that jerk President, the American voters did. As for the 25th Amendment, Trump isn’t insane- he’s an asshole. Big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Crybaby\_Boobie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crybaby_boobie/32/545_2.png) [@Crybaby\_Boobie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crybaby_Boobie)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/52 "2017-10-25T19:02:25Z")
He’s not mentally fit to lead, call it whatever terminology you want. ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/53 "2017-10-25T19:04:17Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I think it’s GREAT that some mainstream conservatives are openly repudiating Trump. I just wish Flake wasn’t wimping out while talking tough. > > If he wants to fight Trump, he can do more in the Senate than outside it. He should run for re-election, even if he knows he may lose. His speech was nice, but so what? Trump has beaten him. This ! I feel the same way that Flake should had run for reelection, action is stronger than words to me. By not running give trump something to brag about ! ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/54 "2017-10-25T19:41:47Z")
I suppose it’s better that he’s sayng something than not saying anything but he’s a sitting senator and unless he did something legislatively to back up the words, they are pretty empty. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/55 "2017-10-25T19:48:35Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Flip it for a second: What if Trump had been elected as a Democrat? Would you expect Senate Dems to suddenly abandon lefty ideals, and possibly just hand the keys of the Senate over to the Republicans? I would hope those Senate Dems would vigorously speak out against the dolt, while cautiously looking for ways to kneecap him. Which is possibly what people like Flake, Corker and McCain are doing. > > STOP MAKING ME DEFEND JEFF FLAKE, PEOPLE!!!🙂 I’m not sure why you see this as a defense of Jeff Flake. If Jeff Flake (and Bob Corker) are going to stand up and declare that Donald Trump is morally, temperamentally, and intellectually unfit to be president and furthermore, that he is actively pursuing unnecessary war against other countries - then I expect them to do what they have to do to remove him from office. Yes, even if that means that they won’t get a tax break this year. Flipping the Senate would ensure that the Russia investigation is pursued to its bitter ends. It would put a halt to some of more egregious of Donald’s appointments. It would (not incidentally) help prevent stupid money being wasted on shit like Donald’s Wall. It might lead to investigations with teeth about why Ryan Zinke’s pal’s two-man company was selected to repair Puerto Rico. Hell - it might lead to actually repair Puerto Rico! It would slow down the effort to sell off national monuments. It wouldn’t be enough, without the House, but it would be start - which Jeff Flake’s speechifying is not. That Flake’s “ideals” lead him to oppose these things is why he’s shithead. Flake, Corker and the other Republicans are causing damage themselves. It’s not just Donald that’s a problem. Again - Flake is onboard with all the damage that the Republicans are causing. And for all his high talk - [Flake’s voting record is in agreement with Donald’s position on things 90% of the time.](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/jeff-flake/) If Donald could just stop being such a freakshow for five minutes, Flake would be happy to keep toeing the line for him. Which is why my response to Flake’s big speech is “Talk is cheap.” I’m always happy to see Republican infighting, but I’m not actually impressed by a guy who quits and gives a big exit speech (but doesn’t actually exit). To hell with Jeff Flake and the rest of the Republican enablers. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/56 "2017-10-25T20:08:14Z")
> [@how I think Jeff Flake comes across](#): > > I’m Jeff Flake and I think Trump and his kind are so bad that I’m just gonna go ahead and get out of their way. :rolleyes: ETA: Look, I’m glad he said what he said. I wish more people would say more, and in clearer terms. But it’s not enough, and it reeks of being a preemptory action to try and provide himself some sort of moral cover without having to actually risk or even do anything. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/57 "2017-10-25T20:25:20Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I think people like him made a pact with the devil, they probably thought Trump would just be some passive moron who signed any bill they passed in congress. > > But their bills didn’t pass. ACA repeal failed. Even their tax bill may not pass. > > Not only that, but Flake would probably lose a primary election in AZ because he isn’t Trumpian enough. > > Would Flake be speaking out if he was facing easy re-election in Arizona, and if Trump was mindlessly signing every Bill congress got passed through congress with no effort. (post shortened) Jeff Flake is a U.S. Senator. It’s the job of a U.S. Senator to reach a compromise with other U.S. Senators, in order to pass bills in the U.S. Senate. A U.S. Senator’s job is to represent that U.S. Senator’s constituents. If compromises aren’t being made, if bills aren’t being passed, if the voters are unhappy with a U.S. Senator’s representation, the fault lies with the members of the U.S. Senate, not with the Executive Branch. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/58 "2017-10-25T20:42:37Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > Except this isn’t true. He’s been an outspoken critic of Trump for well over 18 months now. His speech this week was after his decision. It doesn’t matter though, he didn’t speak up years ago when the rock started rolling down the hill, or when it picked up speed, or when it began to dislodge other rocks. When it became an avalanche he began to speak up far too late warn the people in the town at the bottom of the hill. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/59 "2017-10-25T22:38:25Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > His speech this week was after his decision. It doesn’t matter though, he didn’t speak up years ago when the rock started rolling down the hill, or when it picked up speed, or when it began to dislodge other rocks. When it became an avalanche he began to speak up far too late warn the people in the town at the bottom of the hill. So…let’s start working on a time machine for Sen. Flake? You said he didn’t speak up until this week, I’m just pointing out that that’s not true. I guess I don’t get what people want, aside from a time machine for Jeff flake to go back and do better from an earlier date. Change parties and not vote for conservative policies? Get real. Do you want him to take Trump out single handedly from the senate floor? Because you pretty much need allies to get anything done in the senate, and if Flake starts getting too radical with public attempts to remove Trump from office at a stage where the rest of his colleagues don’t agree, he’ll be even more of a road apple than he already is. Big moves need to start with small steps, much to the chagrin of many it seems. And i say all this as someone who can’t stand flake and hopes he goes off an pounds sand for the rest of his miserable life. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783/60 "2017-10-25T23:04:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > I guess I don’t get what people want, aside from a time machine for Jeff flake to go back and do better from an earlier date. Let me congratulate you on your new purchase of the “time machine” argumentative trope, but I need to point out that we don’t need to break the universe to point out that Flake’s timing is transparently self-serving and not particularly courageous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-people-feel-about-jeff-flake-speaking-out-against-trump/799783.md?page=4)