# How Do Poets Make A Living? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 25, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319 "2010-10-25T19:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/1 "2010-10-25T19:26:06Z")
I’m curious, any full time poets on board who could tell us how it all works? ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/2 "2010-10-25T19:31:06Z")
I suspect you’ll find there are few full time poets making a living out of it. (The majority would likely turn out to be Hallmark employees). Many/most would have a day job, typically at a University. Philip Larkin was almost poet laureate of England, and is one of the most famous poets of the past decades. Till his death he worked as the head librarian at the University of Hull. Reading his letters, I remember him chasing down royalty checks for 15 pounds or the like, and IIRC not just in the 1940s, well into the '60s. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/3 "2010-10-25T19:34:05Z")
I’ve known a couple of people with a significant reputation as a poet. Both were working as university lecturers: I doubt if they made much money from their poetry, ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/4 "2010-10-25T19:52:13Z")
I know of one person who was making a living as a poet – [Lyn Lifshin](http://www.lynlifshin.com/index.htm). This was back in the late 80s, but it looks like she’s still going strong. She managed in several ways. 1. She was incredibly prolific and sent things to every poetry market she could find. Her stuff was good enough to get published often (there even was some Lyn Lifshin backlash as magazines would put in their guidelines not to write like her). She probably didn’t make back her postage on those, but they were important for #3. 2. She got good reviews for her poetry. This also helped with #3. 3. She self-published chapbooks of her poetry. Over 100 of them by now. Since they had all be published in other places, and since she had a name with good critical reputation, it assured readers that this wasn’t just vanity press ramblings. 4. She did readings at every chance she could get – and sold the books afterwards. 5. She did poetry workshops and taught creative writing. Doing all this, she managed to earn enough to pay her bills (her lifestyle was not extravagant). She may be the last, though. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/5 "2010-10-25T23:06:00Z")
I don’t think poets are supposed to make a living at it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/6 "2010-10-25T23:09:19Z")
I know hundreds of poets, and am one myself. I don’t know of anyone who makes a living at it. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/7 "2010-10-25T23:32:06Z")
I just got back from SoCal the other day. The only guy who asked me for money (we were on the coast, not big LA) started by saying he was a poet. I’ve lived in San Fran since 1982. I lived in Oakland for seven years before moving over here. I’ve been to Santa Cruz more than 100 times, Berkely countless times and I have never heard that line before. My friend and I were baffled. Maybe that line plays down there, but whoa, that is so easy to just walk by. Unless you’re Dr. Suess, a poet is probably poor. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/8 "2010-10-25T23:38:04Z")
And if you ARE Dr. Suess…you’re dead! ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/9 "2010-10-25T23:42:47Z")
The only poet I know who makes a living at it has sold a couple of songs (i.e., the lyrics only), which have apparently brought in some moolah, even though I have never heard them played, as far as I know. He doesn’t really even consider them poems. He works as an editor for a business magazine. Another one I know used to be a water lawyer and is now a judge. ---
**Author:** ![Gil-Martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Gil-Martin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gil-Martin)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/10 "2010-10-25T23:43:14Z")
I know one well regarded poet personally. He makes his living as an English professor. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/11 "2010-10-25T23:57:16Z")
I have two people who would describe themselves as full-time poets working in the English Department I help run, and I’d estimate that upwards of 99% of their incomes are earned by their duties teaching, running the CW program, etc. A year where their poetry brings in $1000 is a very good year for them, but publishing that poetry makes them eligible to earn the good livings they make. ---
**Author:** ![Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/le_ministre_de_l_au-dela/32/12181_2.png) [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Le_Ministre_de_l_au-dela)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/12 "2010-10-26T00:42:16Z")
Fundamentally, poetry is a calling, not a job. Poets write because they have something they want to write; the money, when there is some, is a secondary consideration. Most prose writers of my acquaintance still have a day job, despite good reviews, a dedicated fan base and peer recognition. This includes writers of science fiction and of mysteries - one writes tech manuals for IBM, another was communications officer for several arts organizations in Toronto, one teaches at a University, etc. For poets, it’s even harder. Dennis Lee is the only poet of my acquaintance who is successful - his children’s poetry still sells extremely well. For all that, I would suspect he has made more money from his contributions to Fraggle Rock and Labyrinth. His contemporary poetry is well regarded (‘Civic Elegies’ won the Governor General’s award in 1972, for example), but I’d be surprised if it brings in much money. All the other published poets whom I’ve had the honour to meet have had other sources of income, such as working as a medical secretary, an opera singer, a teacher, etc. Some, such as Michael Ondaatje, Dave Margoshes and George Elliot Clarke, write in other forms, such as short fiction, plays and novels. It is as challenging for the people who publish poetry - it is as expensive to publish a book of poetry as any other type of book, and yet the sales figures are minimal. There are the occasional awards - the [Griffin Prize](http://www.griffinpoetryprize.com/awards-and-poets/winners-press-release/), for example, awards $10,000. each to each poet on the short list, and the winners of the International and Canadian poetry prize receive $65,000. each. Not to be sneezed at, but only two poets per year worldwide win those prizes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/13 "2010-10-26T01:01:38Z")
Poets that make a living writing poetry? We tend to call them “lyricists”. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/14 "2010-10-26T05:15:07Z")
In the old days poets and authors had “Patrons” or “Angels” (later adopted by producers of musicals and movies), that put them up in a flat and gave them the basics. Of couse that was long before there was radio or anything else but books. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/15 "2010-10-26T05:32:12Z")
Classically, you served as a favored and underwritten muse and artistic officiary of the Court. It has its roots in feudalism and patronage. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/16 "2010-10-26T05:41:36Z")
Or alternately, they write something so special, so profound, something that captures their time, and place… and a group. That spreads by a giant portion of luck. I think most successful poets have a fire and luck. A certain talent that speaks, a certain luck that engulfs. The buzz in the hive. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/17 "2010-10-26T12:20:45Z")
That still doesn’t sell enough books to make a living from it, though. I know two published poets: One has a PhD in Art (his thesis subject was “The Aesthetics of Rock”). He’s published articles in magazines (several in the Spanish edition of Rolling Stone, to name a name that’ll be familiar here), as well as several volumes of poetry, but he makes a living teaching Art and Art History in High School. The other one is my crazy uncle; he used to have a “daily poem” section in a newspaper, has published several books of poetry and prose, won awards, and collected PhDs (in Spain working on a PhD in the humanities without ever setting foot in a classroom is quite doable, and actually the usual way), all while working for the local government’s Treasury. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/18 "2010-10-26T12:48:06Z")
The UK Poet Laureate annual honorarium is £5,750 and 105 gallons of sherry (!). The current incumbent is Carol Ann Duffy, and her day job is as a university Professor. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/19 "2010-10-26T13:11:08Z")
I’ve spent a good bit on poetry. I’m surprised nobodies answered the OP, “kayaker”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2010, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319/20 "2010-10-26T13:45:43Z")
I wish I could get paid for a rhyme I can make them from rough to sublime I did get some work But I felt like a jerk Writing jingles for ads in prime time . [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poets-make-a-living/558319.md?page=2)