# How do poor people afford everything? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018 "2012-11-14T19:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![CEOofPolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CEOofPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CEOofPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/161 "2012-11-15T15:59:24Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Do you have a paycheck to spend on your imaginary house? why would i need a pay check? ---
**Author:** ![CEOofPolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CEOofPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CEOofPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/162 "2012-11-15T16:02:16Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > If you own, then you’re responsible for fixing every little thing that goes wrong. Water heater suddenly dies? You gotta fork out a couple grand to get a new one. Leaky roof? Better hope you have enough saved. Every little thing that goes wrong is now your financial responsibility. When you rent, it’s not. You just call up your landlord and THEY have to fix it. Me, I’d rather rent and be assured I won’t have to suddenly come up with a large chunk of cash to fix some sort of emergency regarding the house. And while I’m never one to buy a brand new car, for most people your car is your entire livelihood. You need to make sure it works. Because if it doesn’t work, neither do you. yeah well that’s great well now that i think of it you don’t need a house if you don’t got kids. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/163 "2012-11-15T16:05:02Z")
Cutting back, borrowing, relying on the largesse of friends and family. Lots of poor people I know have decent tvs and games consoles for their kids because they were given them, either as christmas/birthday presents (especially for the kids) or when someone they knew upgraded their own stuff and passed their old stuff on - they couldn’t be arsed with selling it for what is usually a huge markdown and they get a warm falling from enabling their friends/family to have nice stuff. Goods like that can be easier to come by, in some ways, than money for rent and bills. > [@RockytheflyingS](#): > > It seems like everything is a “luxury” to you. Your opinion is too biased on this matter. She said that paying someone to do your hair and nails is a luxury \* if you’re poor.\* She also mentioned five dollars on nail varnish and emery boards as a way of still having nice nails even if you’re poor, if you need nice nails for your job. She never said five dollars was a luxury for everybody. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/164 "2012-11-15T16:05:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > OTOH, and I keep stressing this, it is very useful for the non-financially-savvy and disciplined to have a forced savings mechanism. A large number of people who rent do not save the resulting savings and invest it elsewhere, or retain it for an emergency - it just goes to more consumption. So at the end of the day the average home buyer has an asset (illiquid though it may be) and the average renter has nothing, other than the memory of enjoying that slightly higher disposable income. Well, except this is a thread about being poor. Pretty much by definition this means we have no disposable income. I’m not low on savings because I’m spending it all on hookers and blow. I’m low because it’s been almost five years since I’ve made more than my basic living expenses (rent, food, utilities), and there have been several months when I was hundreds or thousands in the hole because there was no work to be found. During those months, I pay rent and bills out of savings – which is why it needs to be liquid. I really doubt I’d be better off risking foreclosure month by month – if that happened, well, good-bye “savings.” I’m pretty sure my unstable income would prevent me from qualifying for a mortgage, anyway. I mean, it’s a very typical middle class (and up) attitude. My lack of money is not because I’m lazy or undisciplined. It’s because I don’t have enough money to _start with._ ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/165 "2012-11-15T16:12:11Z")
> [@CEOofPolar](#): > > yeah well that’s great well now that i think of it you don’t need a house if you don’t got kids. I don’t have kids and I need a house. I would be spending more in rent and horse board if I didn’t have my farm. Are you really this illiterate and uninformed in real life? Maybe your mom can buy you an education, StG ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/166 "2012-11-15T16:14:55Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Well, except this is a thread about being poor. Pretty much by definition this means we have no disposable income. I’m not low on savings because I’m spending it all on hookers and blow. I’m low because it’s been almost five years since I’ve made more than my basic living expenses (rent, food, utilities), and there have been several months when I was hundreds or thousands in the hole because there was no work to be found. During those months, I pay rent and bills out of savings – which is why it needs to be liquid. I really doubt I’d be better off risking foreclosure month by month – if that happened, well, good-bye “savings.” I’m pretty sure my unstable income would prevent me from qualifying for a mortgage, anyway. > > I mean, it’s a very typical middle class (and up) attitude. My lack of money is not because I’m lazy or undisciplined. It’s because I don’t have enough money to _start with._ Until now, I never even HAD savings over $100 at a time. And it always is gone within a paycheck or two due to emergencies. When you’re living paycheck to paycheck, literally not eating anything but 15c ramen for days as you wait for the next payday, it’s nearly impossible to save. And the only reason I DO have any amount of savings? My daughter and I are living with my parents. Otherwise, it would be impossible. So yes, in theory it’s a very good idea to save, but in practice, many of us aren’t able to. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/167 "2012-11-15T16:15:47Z")
> [@CEOofPolar](#): > > idk get a college degree? and pay it back later? Have one. Have professional certifications too. Have you been paying attention to the news? The economy is in the toilet. Well educated, intelligent, capable white collar professionals can’t find work, and this has been going on for more than four years. Seriously. We’re not poor because we’re stupid, either. I have no control over the state of the economy. I can’t wave my wand and suddenly reverse the trend that the competition for every job is on the order of hundreds of applicants for each opening. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/168 "2012-11-15T16:18:39Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > Well, except this is a thread about being poor. Pretty much by definition this means we have no disposable income. I’m not low on savings because I’m spending it all on hookers and blow. I’m low because it’s been almost five years since I’ve made more than my basic living expenses (rent, food, utilities), and there have been several months when I was hundreds or thousands in the hole because there was no work to be found. During those months, I pay rent and bills out of savings – which is why it needs to be liquid. I really doubt I’d be better off risking foreclosure month by month – if that happened, well, good-bye “savings.” I’m pretty sure my unstable income would prevent me from qualifying for a mortgage, anyway. > > I mean, it’s a very typical middle class (and up) attitude. My lack of money is not because I’m lazy or undisciplined. It’s because I don’t have enough money to _start with._ If you read my posts in this thread, you will know that I’m not comming here with the attitude you attribute to me. Please read what I said upthread about what defines being poor: > [@](#): > > Actually, I think a better definition of poor is someone who cannot, even with the best money management skills and the most rutheless budgeting for necessities only, save up enough money so that they are safe in case of the unexpected. > > What defines true poverty is not arguing about luxuries, it is the sense of vulnerability to fortune - that one more thing going wrong would be a disaster, rather than an inconvenience. The non-truly-poor always have some sort of resources available; the truly poor do not. I was responding to another poster on the specific topic of making the choice between renting and buying, when one has that choice. Obviously it is an irrelevant issue if one does not have that choice. So your anger, while understandable, is misplaced. I’ve been poor in my life, and I’m now not poor by any stretch of the imagination; I know what it is like to be poor. Fortunately I was poor when I was young and had no dependants. ---
**Author:** ![thenonepercent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@thenonepercent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thenonepercent)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/169 "2012-11-15T16:21:49Z")
In my twenties I had to choose between paying the water and paying the electricity. We had to go down to the lake and fill buckets just to flush the toilet. That’s what poor is. Getting by with less because it’s all you can do. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/170 "2012-11-15T16:25:00Z")
**CEOofPolar** , could you send your mom in here? We need to have a chat with her. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/171 "2012-11-15T16:25:41Z")
I don’t have a mortgage because, to get one in the cheapest two-bedroom place as far from my daughter’s school and my work as is feasible, into the roughest of areas, I’d need an income of 60,000 quid, roughly 90,000 dollars, a year, just to be approved for a mortgage that would have payments three times higher than my monthly rent. Moving further would mean no work - changing employment fields isn’t really an option and would be bad for getting a mortgage anyway - and moving an autistic child away from her school and friends. I imagine many people in the US are in similar situations, at least work-wise. Buying a home often is simply not an option. ---
**Author:** ![Kaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kaio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaio)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/172 "2012-11-15T16:26:00Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > Until now, I never even HAD savings over $100 at a time. And it always is gone within a paycheck or two due to emergencies. When you’re living paycheck to paycheck, literally not eating anything but 15c ramen for days as you wait for the next payday, it’s nearly impossible to save. And the only reason I DO have any amount of savings? My daughter and I are living with my parents. Otherwise, it would be impossible. > So yes, in theory it’s a very good idea to save, but in practice, many of us aren’t able to. I saved like a fiend when I had a middle-class income, $300-400 a month, more if I could afford it. It’s pretty much the only reason I’ve survived the last four-plus years. (So no, I’m really not lacking in “discipline.”) Hell, I was actually at a point where in a couple months I was planning to split my savings and put half into an IRA, I had enough liquid to feel comfortable tying some up in a non-liquid investment. Then I got laid off, and needless to say, the IRA never happened. On the plus side, I haven’t become homeless yet, either, thanks in part to liquid savings. ---
**Author:** ![CEOofPolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CEOofPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CEOofPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/173 "2012-11-15T16:31:26Z")
or you can work 2 different minuim wage jobs and have enough for ends meet bingo ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/174 "2012-11-15T16:31:32Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I don’t have a mortgage because, to get one in the cheapest two-bedroom place as far from my daughter’s school and my work as is feasible, into the roughest of areas, I’d need an income of 60,000 quid, roughly 90,000 dollars, a year, just to be approved for a mortgage that would have payments three times higher than my monthly rent. > > Moving further would mean no work - changing employment fields isn’t really an option and would be bad for getting a mortgage anyway - and moving an autistic child away from her school and friends. I imagine many people in the US are in similar situations, at least work-wise. Buying a home often is simply not an option. That’s fair enough - but is anyone suggesting that house-buying is somehow superior for everyone? There are lots of reasons why one person might prefer (or need) to rent. Another common one is that someone moves around a lot for work, and the added transaction expenses of repeatedly buying and selling houses make that choice not worth-while. I swear, these discussions often have a defensiveness that is simply not warranted. The choice of one over the other is driven by lots of factors, some financial and others not, and will vary depending on the individual and location. Why is that a surprise? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/175 "2012-11-15T16:41:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That’s fair enough - but is anyone suggesting that house-buying is somehow superior for everyone? some people do. You’d be surprised how many people do. It’s gone quiet now, as I said, since the housing bubble blew up, but I have been called downright stupid and retarded for renting instead of buying. Plus renting is judged. “Obviously you can’t get your shit together enough to buy,” is the unspoken assessment. So perhaps some people are just reacting to that feeling. You’re definitely not giving it, but sometimes it’s hard to forget. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/176 "2012-11-15T16:47:53Z")
> [@Kaio](#): > > I saved like a fiend when I had a middle-class income, $300-400 a month, more if I could afford it. It’s pretty much the only reason I’ve survived the last four-plus years. (So no, I’m really not lacking in “discipline.”) > > Hell, I was actually at a point where in a couple months I was planning to split my savings and put half into an IRA, I had enough liquid to feel comfortable tying some up in a non-liquid investment. Then I got laid off, and needless to say, the IRA never happened. On the plus side, I haven’t become homeless yet, either, thanks in part to liquid savings. That’s great you were able to. It really is the best thing a person can do and it’s always been something I’ve wished I could do. I’m feeling pretty proud of myself right now, having saved as ‘much’ as I have now, even though it’s under $1000. I do sometimes worry about my future as I don’t have a 401k or anything at all. I think that’s another thing people don’t consider when they think about being poor. It’s not just the day to day struggle. It’s knowing that, chances are, you’re going to be doing this till the day you die because you just can’t get yourself any sort of retirement set up. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/177 "2012-11-15T16:49:48Z")
> [@CEOofPolar](#): > > or you can work 2 different minuim wage jobs and have enough for ends meet bingo Are you Theo from the Cosby Show? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/178 "2012-11-15T16:52:29Z")
> [@AngelSoft](#): > > That’s great you were able to. It really is the best thing a person can do and it’s always been something I’ve wished I could do. I’m feeling pretty proud of myself right now, having saved as ‘much’ as I have now, even though it’s under $1000. I do sometimes worry about my future as I don’t have a 401k or anything at all. I think that’s another thing people don’t consider when they think about being poor. It’s not just the day to day struggle. It’s knowing that, chances are, you’re going to be doing this till the day you die because you just can’t get yourself any sort of retirement set up. It’s not like it’s a magic bullet. I have a 401K, I have savings, we both have retirement accounts, and we’re pretty savvy, but I’m pretty sure we’re going to be working a long time. Last I heard you needed to have a million dollars saved up to comfortably retire. HAHA! I won’t have anywhere near that, but I won’t be slaving either. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/179 "2012-11-15T17:09:06Z")
> [@CEOofPolar](#): > > or you can work 2 different minuim wage jobs and have enough for ends meet bingo Dude, you post some of the stupidest, most uninformed stuff I have seen on this board. Federal minimum wage is $7.25, which is $15,080 annually working 40 hours a week. Do that twice and one reaches the princely sum of 30,160. Now think about the logistics of working two full-time minimum wage jobs. How does one actually do that? Ask some people working minimum wage jobs how regular their schedules are. Even if by some immense good luck a person found a first shift job and a second shift job where the end of the first shift didn’t overlap with the start of the second, and could manage to get from one job to the next on time, what does that leave for sleep and other essentials? Imagine a two full time job schedule. 6:00 AM Rise 6:30 AM leave for job 1 7:00 AM start job 1 3:30 PM leave job 1 4:00 PM start job 2 12:30 AM leave job 2 1:00 AM arrive home Do you see the problems with this? You’ve now got 5 hours to bathe, eat, sleep, and do whatever else needs to be done to get you ready for the next day. I agree with **Cat Whisperer**. We need to have a talk with your mom. ---
**Author:** ![CEOofPolar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@CEOofPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CEOofPolar)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018/180 "2012-11-15T17:20:59Z")
i meant like a newspaper carrier, i know you have to get a junker car for a few hundred dollars and a good with good gas mileage because you can do this for a few hours at night time. or instance, according to Pay Scale, as of January 2011, a newspaper delivery person in New York City can expect to receive an average annual salary, before expenses, of $42,748; in Columbus, Ohio that figure drops to $18,123; and in Portland, Oregon the median income before expenses is reported as $22,819. its a good job because it only takes 3 hours to do anyone an get it because people drop there routes any time and the pay is good especially around Christmas even if you only make $1,000 dollars in tips. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-poor-people-afford-everything/641018.md?page=10)