# How do race cars relate to their namesakes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2011, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230 "2011-09-05T04:32:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/21 "2011-09-13T03:32:16Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > How does the National Association for Stock Car Racing (or whatever it is) get away with having zero stock components on its racing vehicles? Where would I go to find _real_ stock car racing? The top three levels aren’t the only ones they sponsor. They do have genuine stock divisions. NASCAR is a BIG organization. If you want virtually straight stock, with cars people drive to the track and the only modifications are safety related, watch SCCA racing. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/22 "2011-09-13T04:36:54Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > In the case of the Mustang, if by “factory” you mean shipping it off to Roush and having them do the work, then, yeah, it’s a factory job. Similar for the Fiesta. We simply don’t build factories to accommodate such one-off variations. I guess you are talking about NASCAR/Fusion but he’s referring to the Mustang [body in white](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_FR500) you can get directly from FRPP. These compete with, and win against, similar offerings from BMW and Porsche in [sports car racing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koni_Challenge). GM and Chrysler have similar programs for the Camaro and Challenger. In this particular series the race cars do bear important resemblance to the road-going cars. The power to weight ratio is equalized but suspension geometry is kept. So the Mustang for example retains its live rear axle. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/23 "2011-09-13T05:00:47Z")
While we’re on the topic of turnkey Ford racecars, they’ve also recently unveiled a racing [Focus](http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows/frankfurt/2011/1109_ford_focus_st_r/). ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/24 "2011-09-13T16:12:18Z")
Likely others elsewhere, but there is Chevyland museum somewhere in mid Nebraska along I 80. They have some ‘‘stock cars’’ of different vintages. The ones from the early 50’s looked like they were bought off the the dealer’s lot. Things have changed since then. As I understand it, NASCAR checks the current cars with a template for the production cars with a small difference allowed. However hokey we may find NASCAR, it is hard to knock such a fine money maker. They are doing a great job giving people what they want. Who copied who, NASCAR or WWE? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/25 "2011-09-13T16:35:26Z")
> [@thelabdude](#): > > Things have changed since then. As I understand it, NASCAR checks the current cars with a template for the production cars with a small difference allowed. As mentioned upthread, current NASCAR vehicles are all build from a single common template that is completely unrelated to any production model, and the only external differences are the decals. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/26 "2011-09-13T17:22:01Z")
Now, if you are talking about GT class sportscars (Vettes/Porsche 911’s/Ferraris/Lambos et al.), even they are extensively modified from their stock configurations. Stiffer springs, better brakes, higher downforces, etc. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/27 "2011-09-13T18:49:11Z")
If you have actual stock cars, how do you know whether it was the driver or car designer who actually won? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/28 "2011-09-13T19:31:00Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > …the racing engines are normally aspirated (carburated) when most street vehicles have used fuel injection for decades… Nitpick: “normally aspirated” refers to lack of forced induction (ie., a supercharger or turbocharger), not to lack of fuel injection. [QUOTE=BigT] If you have actual stock cars, how do you know whether it was the driver or car designer who actually won? [/QUOTE] The same way you do if you have built-from-scratch track-only specials: you don’t. Motor racing is a team sport. [QUOTE=thelabdude] Who copied who, NASCAR or WWE? [/QUOTE] WWE doesn’t pretend its athletes are highly modified versions of real people. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/29 "2011-09-13T22:17:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > If you have actual stock cars, how do you know whether it was the driver or car designer who actually won? The early competitions were as much for the manufacturers as the drivers. That aspect of NASCAR is mostly gone now. ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2011, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/30 "2011-09-13T22:46:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > WWE doesn’t pretend its athletes are highly modified versions of real people. You are saying Jesse Ventura was a regular production model? ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/31 "2011-09-15T13:15:37Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > I guess you are talking about NASCAR/Fusion but he’s referring to the Mustang [body in white](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Mustang_FR500) you can get directly from FRPP. These compete with, and win against, similar offerings from BMW and Porsche in [sports car racing](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koni_Challenge). GM and Chrysler have similar programs for the Camaro and Challenger. No, I understand that completely. As a body in white manufacturing engineer who until just recently had both the North American Fiesta and Mustang producing plants under my realm of responsibility, I can say with authority that they’re not “factory produced” in the sense that they’re off-the-shelf. The BIW is shipped out. So far this doesn’t apply to the NA Fiesta, but the Mustang is definitely shipped off-site, and has all sorts of additional body work (mostly added GMAW welds) performed on it. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/32 "2011-09-17T02:37:04Z")
None-the-less they are available for purchase from Ford, so they are as “factory” as anything else. You said “ship them out to Roush”, which seems to suggest you are talking about the NASCAR team which has Roush’s name on it. Roush is not affiliated with the FR500 program unless you are categorically telling me otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/33 "2011-09-17T12:37:52Z")
> [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](#): > > None-the-less they are available for purchase from Ford, so they are as “factory” as anything else. When most people hear “factory” they think that something comes down the same production line. I’m only trying to point out that, no, they don’t. Well, they do, but then at the end of that production line they’re very heavily, manually customized. And oil painting isn’t a factory piece of canvas; it’s something else. > [@](#): > > You said “ship them out to Roush”, which seems to suggest you are talking about the NASCAR team which has Roush’s name on it. Roush is not affiliated with the FR500 program unless you are categorically telling me otherwise. I have no idea about NASCAR or FR500. Roush is the company that modifies the Mustang BIW for the non-factory production. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/34 "2011-09-17T13:22:01Z")
I think most people would label anything directly sold by the original manufacturer as “factory”. The old Volkswagen Golf Cabriolet was built by Steyr and Karmann rather than at a Volkswagen plant, but that didn’t mean it wasn’t “factory”. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2011, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/35 "2011-09-17T19:07:32Z")
I’m not a NASCAR fan but isn’t it true that at one point, the body shape, ground clearance and dimensions had to conform to the factory car? I have a dim memory of having read that each car had to fall within the dimensions of a factory car’s template; was that true at some point? I’m guessing it isn’t true now. ---
**Author:** ![fiddlesticks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddlesticks/32/18129_2.png) [@fiddlesticks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fiddlesticks)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/36 "2011-09-18T00:46:23Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I’m not a NASCAR fan but isn’t it true that at one point, the body shape, ground clearance and dimensions had to conform to the factory car? I have a dim memory of having read that each car had to fall within the dimensions of a factory car’s template; was that true at some point? I’m guessing it isn’t true now. Yes, it was once true. Here’s a [NY Times piece](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/automobiles/collectibles/17speed.html) written about NASCAR’s old homologation rules, written back in 2008 when they finally officially abandoned any link with a showroom car with the introduction of the “Car of Tomorrow”. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2011, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230/37 "2011-09-18T16:58:21Z")
> [@fiddlesticks](#): > > Yes, it was once true. Here’s a [NY Times piece](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/17/automobiles/collectibles/17speed.html) written about NASCAR’s old homologation rules, written back in 2008 when they finally officially abandoned any link with a showroom car with the introduction of the “Car of Tomorrow”. Thanks for the link; I was afraid my memory had become even worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-race-cars-relate-to-their-namesakes/595230.md?page=1)