How do science administrators convince, say, US Congress to outlay huge $ for abstruse projects?

Directly, it can’t, and no one would try to make that sell. The conversation would be straightforward and honest. If someone asked how the military would be aided, the response would be simply that this is pure research that doesn’t have specific applications yet, and that learning more about nature has historically led to applications, some of them military, many decades later. Etc… (then get the conversation back to where the real story and benefits are.) If the project involves lots of R&D, then technology transfer could be a real thing to bring up, but one wouldn’t just say this if it probably isn’t true.

But Leo Bloom isn’t asking about all of science. He’s asking about very large projects ($500M+) aimed at fundamental questions, and these are essentially 100% government funded.

The U.S. is heavily involved at CERN. In fact, the current head of the CMS experiment (one of the two general purpose experiments on the LHC ring) is an American.

As for a new super-collider: no one is even talking about another high-energy hadron collider in the U.S. The next step in hadron colliders would be an LHC upgrade rather than a fresh start somewhere else. On the particle physics side in the U.S., the $1B-ish projects that are in the air (*) are: a new general-purpose proton source at Fermilab to feed the next several decades of experiments; a new underground laboratory in the Homestake mine in South Dakota for dark matter, neutrino, and proton decay experiments (and a new neutrino beam to go with it); and a linear electron/positron collider, although the momentum for this idea has pretty much fizzled. This short list doesn’t include the many projects on the $20-$400M scale that are at varying levels of officiality since they’re a bit separate from your question, and it doesn’t include any ideas that are still at the twinkle-in-an-eye level.

(*) by which I mean being discussed in earnest within the scientific community and federal agencies.

Another thing to consider is that the large projects mentioned may have been built up from a series of small projects you haven’t heard about. So to you, they seem like large, unproven ventures that came out of the blue, but they may have been incrementally funded and marketed over a series of years. Each time the project is successful, it gets more funding to proceed, and whoever signs off on it then has a vested interest in it succeeding. The bigger it gets, the more jobs are involved and the more reputations at stake, which tends to make for a self perpetuating machine.

For example, in the defense field, there is something called the Small Business Innovation Research (SBIR) program, which also exists in the DoE, DHS, NIH, NASA, and other agencies. Speaking from personal experience doing these types of grants, the agency puts out a wishlist of things they would like developed. Sometimes they are very specific in nature, but some agencies, like the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) tend to be more “big picture” in nature. The way the program works is that you and several other small businesses each get $150,000 to do a proof of concept and show the solution is feasibly possible within 6-9 months. Whoever the Government deems to have the best feasible solution then gets invited to provide a proposal for between $750,000 - $1M to build a prototype. From there, the “sky’s the limit”. If you’ve built an interest technology that has applications across a number of industries and fields, you can get tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars. As part of your marketing efforts, you have usually already started pitching this claim early on.

For example, if I have a new way of combining information from some sensors for an esoteric application to detect, say, when aviation fuel has become contaminated in the field, I’m going to say that it has applications for EVERY fuel pump in the commercial world. That will save $X trillion dollars in terms of repairs to vehicles, reduced pollution, etc. Then I say it will also help with determining when ANY fluid is contaminated beyond fuels, including groundwater, medicines, etc. adding an additional $X trillion. Then I’m going to cite how this is going to extend the life of some other system like hydraulics because the fluid will only get changed when it needs to rather than after X amount of months of use, which is going to reduce downtime of manufacturing machines, which will save $X trillion as well. You get the idea. So by the time we get this far down the road, I think the idea is presented to Congress as “sure it will cost a billion to build, but it will create 50,000 jobs in your district, and it will ultimately save $X billion more down the road and make you look like a hero for funding it”

Anyone who says that no practical technology has come out of CERN recently is just plain flat wrong, and anyone who says that while posting on a website is wrong in a particularly ironic way. The World Wide Web was, in fact, developed largely by CERN. No, it didn’t directly come from research into fundamental particles, but it did come from there.

On another note, a technology doesn’t have to have direct military applications in order to have ties to or receive funding from the military. A couple of examples: First, supernova research has advanced tremendously in the past couple of years. Now, the military has no real interest in supernovae at all… But they do have interest in studying the inner workings of atomic bombs. And it so happens that the supercomputers at Los Alamos built to study explosions of atomic bombs are also very well-suited to studying explosions of stars.

For another example, there’s been a decent amount of work on transient superstrong magnetic fields that’s funded by the military. You produce such by taking a more-or-less standard strong magnet, pack explosives around it, and implode it to compress the magnetic field lines for a few microseconds. The military isn’t interested at all in this, but they are interested in keeping ex-Soviet bomb scientists gainfully employed, so they aren’t tempted to take some rogue state up on an offer to build them a bomb. And building these implosive magnets takes a similar skill and knowledge set to building an implosive nuke, while still keeping the scientists safely away from actual nuclear material.

OK, this is not pure science funding but it can provide some perspective:

I once had a long conversation with a DARPA program manager. They have a goal that some fairly low percentage of programs they fund will produce viable things the military can use…My aging memory says it was 5%, but I wouldn’t argue if you told me it was as high as 15-20%. The idea is that if too many programs succeed, they weren’t reaching far enough. If their success rate starts getting too high, they start looking toward even more fantastic concepts. They are intentionally swinging for the cheap seats, not base hits.

The project I was working on did not pan out for DARPA, but there were some commercial applications of the technology we developed, and so the research did result in a number of jobs and other economic activity. This is rather typical, that the stated objective was not reached, but other results meant that the money wasn’t just thrown down a rat hole.

A lot of our congress critters actually understand that research is needed even when we can’t point to ANY expected benefits. They just need some air cover so that they don’t get clobbered next election over the stuff that didn’t pan out. (even when it wasn’t expected to).
The fact that the CERN LHC didn’t get congressional funding is pretty telling. Some may have forgotten, but there was supposed to be a Super Conducting Super Collider (SCSC) operating under Texas by now. Congress killed the funding for that. So the answer for how does something like the LHC get funding from Congress is that it doesn’t.

I know it started one way, but the technology works the other way too.

Who said that? :confused:

The U.S. contributed $542M in LHC construction and continues with probably $100M-$200M per year for machine support, accelerator R&D, operations, research, and computing. More is always helpful, but this is much different than “none”.

Mort Sahl, actually. Tom Lehrer had a lot of funny things to say about Wernher von Brain, but that wasn’t one of them.

Would have been a great supervillain name.

“Once the rockets go up, who cares where they come down? That’s not my department, says Wernher von Braun.”