# How do sports teams effectively ban fans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 3, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983 "2019-04-03T15:06:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/1 "2019-04-03T15:06:43Z")
Hi all, new here! Periodically you will here about professional teams permanently banning fans from an arena or stadium due to some inappropriate behavior. My question is how do they effectively enforce that ban? Teams don’t generally check ID’s at the gate, and it seems ridiculous to think that teams have security personnel at every game scanning the crowd with a photo of the fan in their hand! It seems it would be easy enough for the banned fan to simply purchase a ticket on the secondary market and, assuming he doesn’t call attention to himself at the game, have a very low risk of being caught. Are such bans generally recognized as unenforceable then, and simply a PR move on the teams part to show that they will “not tolerate” such behavior? Or am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/2 "2019-04-03T15:09:39Z")
Facial recognition is one possibility. See [this website](https://www.facefirst.com/industry/stadium-face-recognition-2/) for a provider of such technology. It specifically mentions the use of the technology to recognize banned fans. And the old-fashioned way to do this is to circulate photos of the banned fans to all of the security staff at the entry gates. My guess is that the troublemakers are few enough that their faces can be memorized. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/3 "2019-04-03T15:14:52Z")
Well, even if you’re right, if the banished fan’s dastardly plan to exact revenge requires spending money on tickets and behaving unfailingly politely while in attendance, I think the team has still won. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/4 "2019-04-03T15:24:15Z")
If the fan behaves, then nobody cares. If the fan misbehaves after being banned he/she can be arrested for trespassing. That isn’t possible without being banned. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/5 "2019-04-03T15:25:29Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > Well, even if you’re right, if the banished fan’s dastardly plan to exact revenge requires spending money on tickets and behaving unfailingly politely while in attendance, I think the team has still won. Not only has the team won, but _if_ security or an usher recognizes the person they can have the police escort him out +/- arrest him. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/6 "2019-04-03T15:25:37Z")
Such a ban is customarily accompanied by a formal document that the fan, if they enter the premises again, will be arrested and charged with trespassing. The bans usually work not necessarily because the fan is really likely to be caught, but because if they ARE caught, the penalty is way harsher than most people would be willing to risk. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/7 "2019-04-03T15:44:18Z")
Is the banning team specific or venue specific? If you get banned by your local NBA team, could you still go to hockey games, concerts, etc at the same arena? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/8 "2019-04-03T15:58:40Z")
If travel is required, sometimes the cops force the bad guys to surrender their passports: > **[Hooligans to hand in passports](https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/local-news/hooligans-to-hand-in-passports-3777436)** > > More than 100 Teesside football hooligans will be forced to surrender their passports ahead of this summer's World Cup in Germany. > **[Football hooligans are being ordered by police to hand in their passports so...](https://www.businessinsider.com/police-order-hooligans-to-surrender-passports-ahead-of-world-cup-2018-6?op=1)** > > London-based soccer fans who have received banning orders from the sport in England have been told by the Metropolitan Police to hand over their passports so they cannot travel to the 2018 FIFA World Cup in Russia. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/9 "2019-04-03T16:14:57Z")
This article > **[Is it even possible to enforce a lifetime stadium ban?](https://www.foxsports.com/stories/mlb/is-it-even-possible-to-enforce-a-lifetime-stadium-ban)** > > Experts in the field talk about the complex problem of keeping unwanted fans out. - contains a discussion of methods used. Posters so far have been pretty much on the money. j ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/10 "2019-04-03T16:43:31Z")
> [@Shoeless](#): > > Is the banning team specific or venue specific? If you get banned by your local NBA team, could you still go to hockey games, concerts, etc at the same arena? Several of the news stories talk about being banned from/by the venue, not the particular team. So they’re banned from any and all events at the venue. The NFL also bans you from attending any NFL game if you’re banned from one venue. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/11 "2019-04-03T16:56:51Z")
thanks for the good information. So it seems like the possibility of getting caught, in hand with the harsh penalties that would accrue, probably serves as enough deterrence to make the bans effective in most instances. And, in those instances where a banned fan disregarded the ban and was able to attend a game without getting caught, as long as he was on his best behavior (which is likely since, again, he would not want to call attention to himself and get caught), then the downside to the team is really negligible. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/12 "2019-04-03T17:06:52Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Facial recognition is one possibility. See [this website](https://www.facefirst.com/industry/stadium-face-recognition-2/) for a provider of such technology. It specifically mentions the use of the technology to recognize banned fans. > > And the old-fashioned way to do this is to circulate photos of the banned fans to all of the security staff at the entry gates. My guess is that the troublemakers are few enough that their faces can be memorized. Yeah, but no. They\* could\* do that, but they don’t (AFAIK). What they do is tells someone they are banned and that if they come back they will be arrested for trespassing. So if the fan does come back and does something stupid, they wont just eject him, they will have the police arrest him. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/13 "2019-04-03T17:47:56Z")
According to the Fox Sports article linked above, “To help catch banned spectators, ballparks, stadiums and arenas will often distribute images of banned fans to security staff.” The same article also mentions the use of facial recognition technology. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/14 "2019-04-03T18:05:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yeah, but no. They\* could\* do that, but they don’t (AFAIK). What they do is tells someone they are banned and that if they come back they will be arrested for trespassing. So if the fan does come back and does something stupid, they wont just eject him, they will have the police arrest him. Madison Square Garden [has used face scanning technology](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/sports/facial-recognition-madison-square-garden.html) on event attendees. There are others who have confirmed that they use it to control access to players’ locker rooms. And there are others who are suspected of using it, but the stadiums haven’t confirmed it. This isn’t a hypothetical; it’s happening now and will probably be ubiquitous in a few years. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/15 "2019-04-03T18:14:12Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > According to the Fox Sports article linked above, “To help catch banned spectators, ballparks, stadiums and arenas will often distribute images of banned fans to security staff.” The same article also mentions the use of facial recognition technology. Sure, they hand them out. But so? Tens of thousands of people are pouring thru, wearing hats, sunglasses and what not. You are gonna stop each and every one have them take off the headgear, stand in front of a line up and compare? They say that, but show me a time where facial recognition technology was actually used to locate a banned fan. It’s expensive and doesn’t work like TV. They say that to scare the banned fan from trying to come back in. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/16 "2019-04-03T18:18:36Z")
Speaking as a former (UK) football ground security guard, at a smaller ground, the banned fans tend not to be the brightest sparks. They don’t show up trying to disguise their looks and sit quietly in the seating area, behaving themselves. They either show up weekly to yell at the staff outside about not being allowed in; skip a few of the less important matches, then turn up after a few beers, then if they get in, head to the terraces (standing area, where approximately 95% of the trouble starts) with the same bunch of friends they always came with, then glare threateningly at the stewards or even attempt to taunt them. That, or they try to ‘act nonchalant’ with all the acting talent of a kindergarten play. There are cameras on the crowd, as well as regular staff, who really do get to know who usually stands in their area, as well as police onsite (at least one police spotter, who could call for serious backup if it looked like things were getting heated). Away fans deemed likely to cause a problem with often arrive with a police escort from their own area. Here at least, most fans who care enough to cause trouble are likely season ticket holders, and the threat of their season ticket being confiscated or declared invalid is a real threat, at least until late in the season, when they tend to forget that they’ll want to apply for a season ticket next year as well, for which a name and payment will be required. The venue I worked at only seated approximately 16,000; I’m sure it’s more complicated at the larger venues. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/17 "2019-04-03T18:18:45Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > Madison Square Garden [has used face scanning technology](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/sports/facial-recognition-madison-square-garden.html) on event attendees. There are others who have confirmed that they use it to control access to players’ locker rooms. And there are others who are suspected of using it, but the stadiums haven’t confirmed it. > > This isn’t a hypothetical; it’s happening now and will probably be ubiquitous in a few years. - “Peter Trepp, the chief executive of FaceFirst, said “very, very few” stadiums and arenas were using facial recognition technology.”\* and \*“Although security is the most obvious use of the technology, some independent experts say it is less effective as a security measure for private businesses because they do not have access to various watch lists held by law enforcement agencies. In fact, some vendors and team officials said the customer engagement and marketing capabilities of facial recognition are even more valuable than added security for sports facilities.” \* It is illegal in two states. Now sure, controlling access to a locker room is one thing, scanning every fan and knowing which fan is banned- that’s another. They may be using it for marketing but keeping out one guy in a crowd of tens of thousands- who might be wearing a hat, sunglasses and beard? That’s the stuff from TV cop shows. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/18 "2019-04-03T19:00:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > They may be using it for marketing but keeping out one guy in a crowd of tens of thousands- who might be wearing a hat, sunglasses and beard? That’s the stuff from TV cop shows. The very first line of my cite says > [@](#): > > Madison Square Garden has quietly used facial-recognition technology to bolster security and identify those entering the building, according to multiple people familiar with the arena’s security procedures. The technology uses cameras to capture images of people, and then an algorithm compares the images to a database of photographs to help identify the person and, when used for security purposes, to determine if the person is considered a problem. If you want to move the goalposts and argue that it isn’t used _frequently_ and has privacy concerns, then go for it. I would agree with you there. But stop arguing that it’s [only TV cop shows](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2018/dec/13/taylor-swift-facial-recognition-stalkers-rose-bowl-concert). ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/19 "2019-04-03T19:03:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > - > > “Peter Trepp, the chief executive of FaceFirst, said “very, very few” stadiums and arenas were using facial recognition technology.”\* and \*“Although security is the most obvious use of the technology, some independent experts say it is less effective as a security measure for private businesses because they do not have access to various watch lists held by law enforcement agencies. In fact, some vendors and team officials said the customer engagement and marketing capabilities of facial recognition are even more valuable than added security for sports facilities.” > \* I don’t think it matters much if the stadium/arena security doesn’t have access to law enforcement watch lists, since they’re mostly interested in those on their own in-house watch lists. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983/20 "2019-04-03T19:23:10Z")
And there’s a difference between using it and using it effectively. It’s possible that Madison Square Garden does use it, but doesn’t catch many folks with it due to hats, sunglasses, and the like. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-sports-teams-effectively-ban-fans/831983.md?page=2)