# How do the europeans want to justify burka (burqa?) ban? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 20, 2010, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089 "2010-05-20T02:26:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Baboonanza](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f475e1/32.png) [@Baboonanza](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baboonanza)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/61 "2010-05-21T08:53:42Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Why can’t there be a nudity religion? One wear you “worship” the human body in all its forms, and believe it “sinful” to cover it up? > > I just don’t like this “Our culture is better than yours” crap. People want to try to use the social contract, but that doesn’t work unless there actually is an option to leave. > > I think ultimately society would be better served having several small communities, each with their own culture, grouped into towns, or even just sections of the city. These places would be private, and would be able to practice whatever culture they wanted. If you don’t like it, you can always leave. Also, outside of these small towns, we’d try the French sterile culture, to help those from various communities interact. We’d also have people going around making sure these communities remained some minimum level of equality, and that people were being allowed to leave. > > I honestly think humans would be a lot happier that way. We seem to want the Star Trek idea, where every species pretty much has the same culture. I think this is a counterproductive goal. But you’ve just described exactly how the world currently works, just with towns instead of countries. The issue it people moving from one town/country to another for economic gain while refusing to adjust their behaviour in any way. Nobody is asking for immigrant communities to become completely homogonous with the native culture, I like my multi-cultural city thanks, but concession is necessay _on both sides_. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/62 "2010-05-21T10:48:27Z")
It’s nothing to do with religion at all. There is nothing in the Quran about it. The recently deceased grand mufti of Al Azhar in Cairo said it was not a religious thing but a cultural thing, so really religion has nothing to do with it. The women who wear it follow salafist ideology. They also believe that stoning is right. They also believe that any woman NOT wearing it is a whore. As they peer at you from the eye slits and look at you and your wife walking down the street they see you the man as indecent because you allow your wife to walk around without burkha. Their ideology is such that any woman not wearing it is a sinner and a whore and the husbands and fathers and brothers of the women not wearing it as indecent, immoral and not following God’s so called orders. maybe if you spoke to a few as I have then you would understand what Burkha is all about and make no mistake. These women are NOT forced to wear it here in Cairo. They want to because that is what the Saudi scholars are telling them to do to get to heaven. Men here are certainly in the minority who would force a women to do this. It is the women’s choice and they choose to do it. Ask them what they think of the French women who don’t wear it, and more importantly what they think of their husbands who allow them to go about as they see it flaunting and enticing men;) Also there are plenty women here who wear it whose families are not religious. France is right to ban it. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/63 "2010-05-21T10:49:29Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Oddly of course darn few people wear the nejamb. When you get down to it, it is basically just some Saudis and Afghanis. It simply is not a big problem. what is a nejamb?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/64 "2010-05-21T10:53:07Z")
This was the view of burkha from the head of the Islamic University where everyone goes to learn about Islam. Al Azhar. [http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article\_C&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout&cid=1254573360090](http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?c=Article_C&pagename=Zone-English-News%2FNWELayout&cid=1254573360090) Shortly after saying this he ‘died’ in Saudi. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/65 "2010-05-21T11:01:46Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > Really? Can you prove that? Can you prove any of the claptrap **you** have posted in this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/66 "2010-05-21T11:02:50Z")
Do you know many men have been caught wearing burkha in the womens section of the Metro in Cairo? Do you know that the prostitutes who come here to service the Gulf Arabs during Summer wear Niqab to enter hotel rooms? Russians, Egyptian’s, Eastern Europeans all sorts. Female suicide bombers wear them. Do you know how dangerous it is when a woman drives with one on?? Would you be happy to have them driving in the same lane as you? ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/67 "2010-05-21T11:06:04Z")
[QUOTE=Marmite Lover;12480575 The women who wear it follow salafist ideology. They also believe that stoning is right. They also believe that any woman NOT wearing it is a whore. As they peer at you from the eye slits and look at you and your wife walking down the street they see you the man as indecent because you allow your wife to walk around without burkha. … France is right to ban it.[/QUOTE] How do you know what these people are thinking? Somehow people who wear certain clothing are thinking about you? Do you find this mode of thought to be entirely rational? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/68 "2010-05-21T11:10:06Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > It’s one thing to think it a reasonable idea - it’s another to think it’s an actual workable one in practice. Some women wearing the burqa or other clothing are undoubtedly hurt by doing so; but i’d say those that are will be hurt more by the ban. I’d say that what you will do by banning is is to reinforce everything they thing you are. They believe you are against Islam and it will make them more radical in their thinking. They will then move to Riyadh or somewhere. Maybe join a training camp. The ones who are doing it purely politically and not religious reasons will remove it and carry on life as normal. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/69 "2010-05-21T11:11:27Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > How do you know what these people are thinking? > > Somehow people who wear certain clothing are thinking about you? Do you find this mode of thought to be entirely rational? Paul are you a Western man living in Saudi, or a Middle eastern man? If you are ME then you know exactly what I am talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/70 "2010-05-21T11:26:00Z")
Do you also know that they wear nylon gloves . These nylons gloves are thin and have no grip on a steering wheel. Would you be happy sitting as a passenger in a car when the driver is driving wearing a motorcycle helmet? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/71 "2010-05-21T11:47:46Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Would you be happy sitting as a passenger in a car when the driver is driving wearing a motorcycle helmet? > > I think not. Maybe women in Saudi Arabia should drive motorcycles. Problem solved! ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/72 "2010-05-21T11:55:31Z")
Women are not allowed to drive cars and especially not cycles as that would involve a saddle and having to sit legs astride in Saudi. You won’t see little girls riding bicycles. Women in Saudi first have to ask the husband for permission to leave the home. If he is having a bad day then she stays home. Then he calls his driver and she is then allowed to leave to shop once his brother, or her brother, or his dad or another male relative is free to take her and chaperone her. We are talking Saudi here. You do know that the Western petro wives have to cover up to to go out don’t you? You do know that many have been beaten by sticks by the muttawah religious police for showing an elbow? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/73 "2010-05-21T12:04:25Z")
[http://www.wluml.org/node/208](http://www.wluml.org/node/208) The sentencing of a 75-year-old widow to 40 lashes and four months in prison for mingling with two young men who were reportedly bringing her bread has sparked new criticism of Saudi Arabia’s ultraconservative religious police and judiciary. The two men, including one who was Sawadi’s late husband’s nephew, were also found guilty and sentenced to prison terms and lashes. … Delivery men are not allowed to enter premises where there is no man from the family present. These guys were delivering bread to a 75 year old!! ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/74 "2010-05-21T12:06:41Z")
The pernicious form of Islam called Salafism is from there. This is where Bin Laden comes from. Salafism is spreading and the US is an good ally of Saudi. Doesn’t make sense does it? ---
**Author:** ![Uzi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/91b2a8/32.png) [@Uzi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uzi)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/75 "2010-05-21T13:05:30Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Paul are you a Western man living in Saudi, or a Middle eastern man? > If you are ME then you know exactly what I am talking about. He’s a person from the west. If he actually believes the things he says in this thread, then I have grave doubts about his actually having been to Saudi let alone living there. The whole point of the burkha is to protect your property from others. And if that wasn’t the reason for why it was created it is the main reason it has continued to exist throughout the centuries. ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/76 "2010-05-21T13:07:02Z")
A few points. Islam does not require women to wear veils so it is not a religious issue. One poster up thread said burqas are banned in some parts of europe because europeans don’t like cultural non conformance, this is nonsense, people are more then happy for Sikhs to wear turbans and women to wear saris. Its the covering up of the face to make the individual anonymus that people disapprove of. At least one of a group(male) involved in Islamic terrorism in the U.K. tried to escape police by disguising themselves as Muslim women wearing a burqa. No doubt hoping as a bonus, that apart from being disguised police would be reluctant to search him due to accusations of racialism and deference to his apparent sex as a “her”. I have no cite for this but can get one if anyone gets nit picky. The girl in Belgium who started wearing a veil to school, admitted that she only did it to annoy her mother. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/77 "2010-05-21T14:00:08Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Paul are you a Western man living in Saudi, or a Middle eastern man? > If you are ME then you know exactly what I am talking about. I am an American who has lived in this region for 13 years. I have no idea as to how you know everyone in a nijaba is thinking about you. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/78 "2010-05-21T14:03:13Z")
> [@Uzi](#): > > The whole point of the burkha is to protect your property from others. And if that wasn’t the reason for why it was created it is the main reason it has continued to exist throughout the centuries. Wow, that is fascinating! Got any bit of proof for your claim? (I am in Saudi Arabia, but I have not been out of the house since lunch.) ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/79 "2010-05-21T14:37:04Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > I am an American who has lived in this region for 13 years. I have no idea as to how you know everyone in a nijaba is thinking about you. Ah that explains it. You are male I take it ? so you wouldn’t converse with the males in Saudi over this issue. Let me tell you clearly how they think. Some Saudi men are huge hypocrites. They have sex abroad in hotel rooms etc and rented flats with prostitutes and anyone willing to go with them. They call these women whores. If Saudi man is the dominant one then he believes:rolleyes: that this is allowed in Islam. Same with the high rate of homosexuals. The dominant one is doing no wrong in their eyes. It is the submissive one who is sinning. Crazy but true. So any single woman not a virgin to them is a whore. ANY woman. Even though they sleep with them and pay for sex. So all the women in the West who are not married and not virgins to them are whores. Likewise to them a woman not covering up is a whore. I am not saying they think that all the time 24/7,obviously they think of other things . It is just understood. Likewise any foreign man who allows his wife or daughter to go out without covering up is immoral and he is though very badly of. This explains why an Arab man would pay for sex with prostitutes, but never marry a woman who is not a virgin. Any Arab girl found not to be virgin is ostracized. This is because it is all about family honour. So the niqab/burkha wearing daughter or wives have been brought up to believe that not covering is actually immoral, and anyone not covering is actually enticing, sexually manipulating, and some kind of whore. Therefore although they will not say it to your face, when they see a couple dressed in Western style clothing, they see the male as not caring about his reputation, about the reputation of the woman he is with, and the woman as nothing short of a vamp, cheap and immoral whore. This is what they believe. This type would never be friends with you because then they would get the same reputation. Crazy but true. These Burkha clad women walking around Paris or elsewhere think that women not dressed like them are immoral. If they can manage to convince one of you to change into a burkha they will receive endless rewards in heaven. So they say. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089/80 "2010-05-21T14:44:21Z")
> [@Lust4Life](#): > > A few points. > > At least one of a group(male) involved in Islamic terrorism in the U.K. tried to escape police by disguising themselves as Muslim women wearing a burqa. a few have been beaten up before cops arrived when they were discovered in the Metro ladies car:D They are usually discovered by their shoes:smack: Some men wear them here to get into single ladies apartments:D Lots of girls wear them here to leave the house and take them off when they get to the nightclub door:D [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-europeans-want-to-justify-burka-burqa-ban/540089.md?page=5)