# How do the Immortal Ones convey property down through the years? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721 "2020-01-01T16:13:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/21 "2020-01-01T19:21:42Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Until recent decades, there were no “significant” (for lack of a better word) identity documents. As a general rule, your identity was who you said you were. If Joe Vampire decided to fake his own death and start calling himself Joe Vampire Jr., there was no government agency to say otherwise. > > I’m not sure how immortals would re-invent themselves in these days, what with Social Security numbers, driver’s licenses, and other computer-tracked forms of ID. But until recent decades, it would have been a trivial matter. Its still pretty simple. When we had my daughters we just filed a birth certificate with the county and then sent it to the feds to get them a ssn. I know home births are still allowed so you’d just have to pay a mid wife to help you give birth every 30 years or so. Home school the “child” and then once its time to go to college “kill” yourself and write a very emotional entrance essay about losing your parents. Then you go to college as your child and get to start earning degrees and generating your new identity. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/22 "2020-01-01T19:29:57Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Until recent decades, there were no “significant” (for lack of a better word) identity documents. As a general rule, your identity was who you said you were. If Joe Vampire decided to fake his own death and start calling himself Joe Vampire Jr., there was no government agency to say otherwise. > > I’m not sure how immortals would re-invent themselves in these days, what with Social Security numbers, driver’s licenses, and other computer-tracked forms of ID. But until recent decades, it would have been a trivial matter. The rise of Ubiquitous Surveillance will doom the Undead, destroying their secrecy. Unless the Undead take control of the monitoring agencies. As in the following… > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve never understood why various immortal beings seek to join or associate with police departments (Angel, Forever, Forever Knight, iZombie, Lucifer, Moonlight, New Amsterdam, The Vampire Detective, The Vampire Files, etc). If you’re trying to hide a major secret, why call attention to yourself by hanging out with an organization full of investigators? Because if the Undead infiltrate and run the department, they can direct attention and probes elsewhere, suppress evidence, destroy any committed investigators, etc. The head roosters guarding the henhouse should be undercover foxes. (That’s a metaphor.) ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/23 "2020-01-01T19:38:48Z")
Could they pretend to be immigrants? If they have enough control of the Immigration Department, they could keep importing immigrants (their new identities) and will their money to them. On a related note, how many years would it take before people notice the lack of aging? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/24 "2020-01-01T19:53:09Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > On a related note, how many years would it take before people notice the lack of aging? Why is this a problem? Sure, the neighbours might notice you look pretty good for your age (which they don’t know for sure anyway, and can only guess), but eventually each of them will move out or die. Also, if we are still talking about Dracula (I can’t believe I am writing this in General Questions!), remember he can change his shape, look old, young, like a bat, whatever, plus hypnotize people, plus teleport and turn into mist, so it’s safe to assume that people encountering these vampires notice what the vampires want them to notice, which could be nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/25 "2020-01-01T22:35:34Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …(which was why MacLeod was constantly adopting himself) Was he? I didn’t know that. I haven’t seen the movie in a long, long time though. > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Connor MacLeod’s antique business was well-established, but he was also wealthy and had immediate access to all sorts of antiquities. He wouldn’t have needed any time at all to get a business up and running in a new city. \*\*I don’t think we actually know how long he’d owned it, but it couldn’t have been for very long. \*\* [sub]Bolding by **Tripler** [/sub] I vaguely recall the movie, but had the impression that he’d been in business for a couple of decades. I am probably wrong though. . . > [@dropzone](#): > > These particular Immortal Ones don’t seem to be experts at anything. Same with their familiar. This is one of the most hilarious things of this WWDITS. One would think that folks that have been around the block for a few hundred years’ time would have at least half a clue. > [@RioRico](#): > > Because if the Undead infiltrate and run the department, they can direct attention and probes elsewhere, suppress evidence, destroy any committed investigators, etc. The head roosters guarding the henhouse should be undercover foxes. (That’s a metaphor.) I know from direct experience, that bureaucrats have no soul. Ever been to the DMV? It’s filled with the undead. Tripler I walk amongst them, yet I know I live–for I have a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![road\_lobo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d78d45/32.png) [@road\_lobo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/road_lobo)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/26 "2020-01-01T22:50:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve never understood why various immortal beings seek to join or associate with police departments (Angel, Forever, Forever Knight, iZombie, Lucifer, Moonlight, New Amsterdam, The Vampire Detective, The Vampire Files, etc). If you’re trying to hide a major secret, why call attention to yourself by hanging out with an organization full of investigators? In universe reasons? . Boredom . Inside information . Hiding in plain sight ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/27 "2020-01-01T22:50:52Z")
While there may be a general question here about how to pass property down over long periods of time, much of the discussion is focused on the supernatural characteristics of particular immortal vampires. Given this, let’s move this to Cafe Society. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2020, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/28 "2020-01-01T23:13:13Z")
> [@Kimera757](#): > > On a related note, how many years would it take before people notice the lack of aging? Twentyfive and a bit if you start young. Its been stretching out as people become less and less superstitious. A timespan that would have had them around with torches and pitchforks a hundred years ago is just “good genes” or “good skin” today. If you don’t actually look young, that bit can be easier though. Once you look like you’re beyond the age where you compete for mates, people stop caring that much, or looking that closely. Everyone remarks on it if you look 20 in your 40s, but looking 60 in your 90s isn’t suspicious at all. It can be easier socially to set up in a new place if you are a babyface, but you’re going to have to plan an exit in 25 years. If you have the more mature look, claim you’re 55 at the start and you might be able to go 40 years before having to move. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/29 "2020-01-02T01:34:21Z")
Why would you socialize with mortals on a regular basis? Don’t you have vampire stuff to do? I’m not saying you never leave your apartment, quite the contrary, but, assuming you are trying to keep a low profile, you don’t let any of them know and study you well, let alone for decades. That’s how you attract vampire hunters. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/30 "2020-01-02T02:16:49Z")
Based on the television show mentioned in the OP (and other vampire-related movies and TV shows) the humans whom the vampires interact with regularly (sometimes called the familiar) serve as a liaison with the rest of the world. They might, for instance, arrange for the coffins containing the dormant vampires to be transported to another city (since the vampire can’t act during the day). And the familiars may be necessary to procure blood donors/victims. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/31 "2020-01-02T18:28:40Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And banks are institutions that last longer than 1 human lifetime (which was why MacLeod was constantly adopting himself) > [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Connor MacLeod’s antique business was well-established, but he was also wealthy and had immediate access to all sorts of antiquities. He wouldn’t have needed any time at all to get a business up and running in a new city. I don’t think we actually know how long he’d owned it, but it couldn’t have been for very long. > > I’m not sure how you’d pull it off if you insisted on staying in the same place forever. MacLeod owned his house for at least 5 generations. He’d build a new identity using a birth certificate from a baby who had died in infancy, then fake his death (or maybe not fake) and leave everything to the new identity. They matched all the signatures from the registry of deeds to prove it. So he did stay there pretty much forever, with a few detours to fight in WWII and such. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/32 "2020-01-02T21:35:23Z")
RioRico: > [@](#): > > The rise of Ubiquitous Surveillance will doom the Undead Aren’t vampires invisible to cameras, like they are to mirrors? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/33 "2020-01-02T21:55:36Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > RioRico: > > Aren’t vampires invisible to cameras, like they are to mirrors? Film cameras which use silver nitrate. CCD devices can record any physical manifestation. (As demonstrated by our being able to see the vampires in the reality show. ) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/34 "2020-01-02T22:28:01Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > These particular Immortal Ones don’t seem to be experts at anything. The ones in the movie were hardly the sharpest tools in the shed, either, but they could mind whammy mortals into ignoring anything unusual (such as Deacon clinging to the ceiling) just fine. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2020, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/35 "2020-01-02T23:19:30Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Its still pretty simple. When we had my daughters we just filed a birth certificate with the county and then sent it to the feds to get them a ssn. I know home births are still allowed so you’d just have to pay a mid wife to help you give birth every 30 years or so. Home school the “child” and then once its time to go to college “kill” yourself and write a very emotional entrance essay about losing your parents. Then you go to college as your child and get to start earning degrees and generating your new identity. I went to a private boarding school with several girls who had no intention of ever working, their parents had never worked a day in their lives, ditto grandparents for a number of generations. When one has enough money, jobs are inessential - the money is in the bank [and investments, they OWN the workers jobs …] all one needs to do is occasionally ‘have a kid’ that is home birth, home schooled and lives off trust fund money [_cough_ trustafarian _cough_] ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/36 "2020-01-03T18:01:45Z")
Or… you have two establishments, A and B. After 30 years, when the age-look starts to become anomalous, move to site B for 30 years. Come back to A as the (grand-)nephew of the previous owner in another 30 years. You need a cooperative midwife to fake new generations, and don’t forget a cooperative doctor and undertaker to fake the passing on of the oldest identity. “Cremate” the remains and there’s no inconvenient empty grave to be discovered. I haven’t seen the show, but it’s possible vampires are just like real people. There are those that can save, invest, and plan and become rich, to the point where investments are all that are needed to keep the family corporation in caviar and champagne. (_Fifty Shades of Grey_ was allegedly originally a story about a vampire family like this, but with the vampire aspect then stripped out to concentrate on some other aspects of the story) OTOH, there are also I’m sure vampire who, like real people, can’t avoid running up a credit card to the max as soon as they get it and end up working as night watchmen or jewel thieves for the rest of their existence. (Ignoring the idea that their powers would make them ideal thieves who could get in anywhere and escape with any valuables leaving no clue how it happened). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/37 "2020-01-03T19:22:56Z")
The restriction in the OP to nothing criminal pretty much makes this a no-go. Ergo, no fake ID. The IO has to maintain the same identity, fill out all tax forms using that identity, keep assets (directly or indirectly through corporations) under that identity, etc. Sooner or later the IRS is going to notice someone has been filing taxes for 140 years. One could live a lifestyle that is outside the system (legally). E.g., by being too poor and asset-less to have to file tax forms, etc. I assume a vampire-type person would be really good at panhandling. [Waves a hand. "You _really_ do have change don’t you? … Thank you.] But then conveyable property is not an issue in all likelihood. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/38 "2020-01-03T20:00:34Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > The restriction in the OP to nothing criminal pretty much makes this a no-go. > > Ergo, no fake ID. The IO has to maintain the same identity, fill out all tax forms using that identity, keep assets (directly or indirectly through corporations) under that identity, etc. > > Sooner or later the IRS is going to notice someone has been filing taxes for 140 years. > > One could live a lifestyle that is outside the system (legally). E.g., by being too poor and asset-less to have to file tax forms, etc. I assume a vampire-type person would be really good at panhandling. [Waves a hand. "You _really_ do have change don’t you? … Thank you.] But then conveyable property is not an issue in all likelihood. Sticking to that “nothing criminal” bit: say a vampire has a mesmerized thrall who has a valid ID and dutifully pays income tax, and say the thrall is always the one who rents a hotel room (for two), or buys a house (and can then let somebody stay there, free of charge), or chauffeurs someone else around (in a big fine car that’s actually owned by the thrall) or whatever. So the vampire’s name never appears on any paperwork — and, when that thrall eventually dies, someone _else_ who’s been enthralled by the vampire stands to inherit everything; and so on, and so on. So property keeps getting conveyed down through the generations, and the vampire keeps enjoying uninterrupted use of it; but the legal documents only ever mention someone who’s breaking no laws. Is the vampire breaking any laws? ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/39 "2020-01-03T21:17:07Z")
In the show Forever Knight, Nick had a banker who handled financial affairs for him, as his father, grandfather, etc. had before him. Nick did move around some though. Hoever, in that show, it was mentioned that as early as the 1860’s, with the development of good photography technology, that vampires realized they could be in trouble, and established a squad of enforcers to eliminate humans and vampires whose behavior might be endangering the secret. ---
**Author:** ![Mogle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mogle/32/12021_2.png) [@Mogle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mogle)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721/40 "2020-01-03T21:33:02Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > Is the vampire breaking any laws? Well, the last country to abolish thralldom did so in 1335, so authorities might take a dim view of keeping someone as thrall 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-immortal-ones-convey-property-down-through-the-years/845721.md?page=3)