# How do the pioneers of rock & roll view the progression of the genre? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2011, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090 "2011-10-09T17:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellis_Aponte_Jr)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/21 "2011-10-10T20:56:48Z")
I remember seeing a brief TV interview with Bo Diddley - and this may have been 20 years ago - in which he said he felt that rock had changed so much since its early days that the contemporary version should be called by some other name. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/22 "2011-10-10T21:02:20Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Debbie Harry, a pioneer of Punk Rock I once graded a history paper where the student talked about Ben Franklin as a follower of Karl Marx. This doesn’t top that, but it’s close. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2011, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/23 "2011-10-10T22:28:14Z")
I think Blondy was like the Go Gos. They started out as punk, but to get record deals they had to go pop. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/24 "2011-10-11T01:32:18Z")
[quote=“Prelude\_to\_Fascination, post:17, topic:599090”] I wouldn’t exactly call the Who a pioneer of rock ‘n’ roll, but they were early on. Here’s Entwistle commenting on rap: > [@](#): > > can`t stand rap....people who can`t sing do rap…you can sing rebellion as well as talk it…Hitler would have been in a rap band. How aboutthat. It’s possible to Godwinize a thread about rock ‘n’ roll! A wop bop a loo bop a wop bam uber alles! ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/25 "2011-10-11T01:50:26Z")
I’m not sure that any of the “early pioneers” think/thought about it in that way. That is, I don’t imagine Elvis or Chuck Berry spending much time thinking about Rock ‘n’ Roll as much more than playing music, getting laid, and making a living. Most of rock’s philosopher kings (ha!) didn’t come along until later. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/26 "2011-10-11T03:12:31Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Debbie Harry, a pioneer of Punk Rock, talked smack about Lily Allen’s rendition of “Heart of Glass” mere seconds after the reconstituted Blondie backed Allen up on the song on the **Today** show (This was maybe 4 years ago). That’s more like grumpy grousing about one artist than damning a whole generation, no? And Lily Allen **is** obnoxious. And I do agree, she is considered to be involved in punk, even if not an orthodox example. She also invented hip hop with _Rapture_. ;)😃 For the crappy 90s _Godzilla_ film, the guy who was then known as Puff Daddy added a song to the soundtrack. He sampled Led Zeppelin’s _Kashmir_ and Jimmy Page provided guitar. I’d say he doesn’t hate rap (or just likes money more). ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/27 "2011-10-11T03:47:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Rock’s moment feels like passed in the 90’s - grunge and the Seattle scene felt like the last gasp of fresh and rebellious, but not much since then. American Idiot was popular… OK, just stop right there. :smack: You’re confusing _popular rock_ with rock. Yes, the moment of being able to turn on the local pop hits station and hear good rock music passed in the mid 90s. By 2000, pop radio was heavily dominated by r&b, rap and music influenced by rap like nu-metal. The very same radio stations that, five years prior, were playing Weezer, U2, Alice in Chains and Alanis Morrisette. But rock didn’t die, it just went underground. The indie and college rock scene thrived all through the first decade of the 21st century. I never saw in my life such devoted music fans as during my year in the college dorm in 2004-2005. And it was all music that I had _never_ heard of before. And there were definitely interesting new sounds being experimented with. Forget about Green Day and shit like that; those guys are living in the past. They’re dinosaurs and commercial entities. Just take a look at the lineup for [Pitchfork 2011.](http://pitchforkmusicfestival.com/artists/) I’m not saying I like all of those acts or even most of them, but they’re legitimately “fresh.” Tv on the Radio are great, and Animal Collective is undeniably innovative, if weird. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/28 "2011-10-11T09:39:39Z")
> [@StusBlues](#): > > I once graded a history paper where the student talked about Ben Franklin as a follower of Karl Marx. > > This doesn’t top that, but it’s close. My first exposure to Debbie Harry was the cover of a 1978-ish issue of High Times with her picture and the caption “Blondie: Punk’s Marilyn Monroe?” Prior to the Lily Allen episode, my last exposure to her was the night they closed CBGB’s. I’d say her punk cred is up there, though not for every second of every intervening year. You can go back to grading papers now. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/29 "2011-10-11T11:51:06Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > OK, just stop right there. :smack: You’re confusing _popular rock_ with rock. Yes, the moment of being able to turn on the local pop hits station and hear good rock music passed in the mid 90s. By 2000, pop radio was heavily dominated by r&b, rap and music influenced by rap like nu-metal. The very same radio stations that, five years prior, were playing Weezer, U2, Alice in Chains and Alanis Morrisette. But rock didn’t die, it just went underground. The indie and college rock scene thrived all through the first decade of the 21st century. I never saw in my life such devoted music fans as during my year in the college dorm in 2004-2005. And it was all music that I had _never_ heard of before. And there were definitely interesting new sounds being experimented with. > > Forget about Green Day and shit like that; those guys are living in the past. They’re dinosaurs and commercial entities. Just take a look at the lineup for [Pitchfork 2011.](http://pitchforkmusicfestival.com/artists/) I’m not saying I like all of those acts or even most of them, but they’re legitimately “fresh.” Tv on the Radio are great, and Animal Collective is undeniably innovative, if weird. Dude, I love TV on the Radio, Vampire Weekend, Mastodon and a bunch of other new bands. Your observation about rock music going underground sounds correct to me - it is no longer the defining mainstream illustration of the generation gap - the Internet does that these days. Everybody can listen to anything anywhere - and so they do. I just don’t expect to see it at the front lines of the culture movement nearly as often… ---
**Author:** ![Kim\_o\_the\_Concrete\_Jungle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ee7513/32.png) [@Kim\_o\_the\_Concrete\_Jungle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kim_o_the_Concrete_Jungle)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/30 "2011-10-11T12:27:25Z")
> [@Ellis\_Aponte\_Jr](#): > > I remember seeing a brief TV interview with Bo Diddley - and this may have been 20 years ago - in which he said he felt that rock had changed so much since its early days that the contemporary version should be called by some other name. That was going to be my answer. What’s called rock now doesn’t remotely resemble the rock n roll of the 50s. I can’t imagine those guys would have much to say about rock because it’s nothing to do with them. Regarding Blondie – they did have their punk phase, as can see in this video: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqJk0q4QvZk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqJk0q4QvZk) I tend to think of them as a trend band. They jumped onto whatever bandwagon happened to be rolling past at the time – punk, disco, rap… ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/31 "2011-10-11T15:15:52Z")
I don’t think the pioneers would be down on the various directions rock has went. It’s become so diverse and plentiful that there seems to be something to fit everyone’s tastes if they look hard enough. What probably leaves a bad taste in their mouths is the way the ‘business’ has headed: -The calcualted and controlled manufacturing of new stars through mega corporations like Disney’s tweener shows or Fox’s American Idol. -The death of the physical medium and the brick & mortar distribution. -The monopoly stranglehold of entities like MTV and Clearchannel. While the heart of rock-n-roll is still beatin (thanks Huey) it’s the industry that has become cold and heartless. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/32 "2011-10-11T20:08:57Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > My first exposure to Debbie Harry was the cover of a 1978-ish issue of High Times with her picture and the caption “Blondie: Punk’s Marilyn Monroe?” _High Times_. That’s appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/33 "2011-10-12T00:02:23Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > I remember Johnny Cash was pretty negative to the PMRC nonsense, saying how he and his son went to a Twisted sister concert and liked Dee Snider. The real pioneers seem often to be very open to new stuff because they genuinely **like** music and musicians. Cash covered all sorts of modern rock and even pop stuff on the American Recordings (everyone should check those out if you haven’t). On a lesser plane, either Axl Rose or his camp have been deriding Slash for (apparently) collaborating with Fergie and other modern acts, but I think Axl gets the worse of that criticism for rejecting new genres (actually, he’s in a tighter bind than that – he’s championing a one-man genre with his weird combination of industrial rock and symphonic instrumentals, and of course he can’t be seen to be nostalgic for old GNR because that would imply that all the guys he now hates were part of a great band, which he now denies). ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090/34 "2011-10-12T00:11:19Z")
> [@Hampshire](#): > > While the heart of rock-n-roll is still beatin (thanks Huey) it’s the industry that has become cold and heartless. When was the music industry NOT cold and heartless? A lot of the pioneers of rock and roll were screwed over big time by the industry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-pioneers-of-rock-roll-view-the-progression-of-the-genre/599090.md?page=1)