# How Do The Plains Indians Explain The Coming of The Horse? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 10, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919 "2008-01-10T00:18:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/1 "2008-01-10T00:18:40Z")
Are there any legends that the Plains Indian tribes retain? The horse vanished from the Americas during the last ice age. The horse was re-introduced by the spaniards in the 1580’s-first by Coronado, who may have left a mare and a stallion in what is now New Mexico. My question: have the native americans retained any legends about htis? By the time of Louis and Clark, the plains indians had fully learned how to ride and care for horses-one could say that they “re-domesticated” these animals. Anybody know more? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/2 "2008-01-10T00:37:31Z")
Bump. Because I think this is a great question. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/3 "2008-01-10T01:24:11Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] Are there any legends that the Plains Indian tribes retain? The horse vanished from the Americas during the last ice age. The horse was re-introduced by the spaniards in the 1580’s-first by Coronado, who may have left a mare and a stallion in what is now New Mexico. My question: have the native americans retained any legends about htis? By the time of Louis and Clark, the plains indians had fully learned how to ride and care for horses-one could say that they “re-domesticated” these animals. Anybody know more? [/QUOTE] I’m pretty sure the horses were still close to domesticated in genetic heritage, and so were ‘feral’ rather than wild. Once you caught and tamed one, it was pretty much like any domesticated horse. Actually, I’ve more than once wondered how Native American religion accounts for the extinction of their entire way of life at the hands of the whites. ---
**Author:** ![SandyHook](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dec6dc/32.png) [@SandyHook](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SandyHook)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/4 "2008-01-10T01:28:28Z")
Just a guess on my part. The Indians who lived inland would have most likely first seen horses when the white explorers/trappers/whatever came by. Or they would have heard about them from other tribes who had seen them first hand. This would have taken place over a fairly short time, 100 years maybe. That’s from the time the Spanish landed in Mexico until most of the North American Indians would have least heard rumors of horses and white men. My guess is that there just wasn’t enough time for legends and/or myths to take hold. They were almost immediatly aware that horses came with the whites. ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/5 "2008-01-10T01:31:19Z")
There doesn’t seem to be an origin story, if this is to what you refer. I am not of a Plains Nation, but I have never heard of such origin stories and i should think I would have been in a position to have heard such stories if they were prevalent. Perhaps only tangentially related is the fact that my people, the Creek, as well as some indigenous Mexican languages refer to the horse as the “big deer”, _rakko eco_ in Mvskoke (Creek). The lack of a name that is not derivative may indicate that horses were not considered to have been amongst the original animals here. ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/6 "2008-01-10T01:36:04Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] Actually, I’ve more than once wondered how Native American religion accounts for the extinction of their entire way of life at the hands of the whites. [/QUOTE] Such a question is not directly addressed to my knowledge. Although our religious traditions are not monolithic, deterioration of our culture is addressed only in warnings to return to traditions and “Indianess”, much like a Christian returning to the “straight and narrow”. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/7 "2008-01-10T01:36:35Z")
[QUOTE=Lumpy] I’m pretty sure the horses were still close to domesticated in genetic heritage, and so were ‘feral’ rather than wild. Once you caught and tamed one, it was pretty much like any domesticated horse. Actually, I’ve more than once wondered how Native American religion accounts for the extinction of their entire way of life at the hands of the whites. [/QUOTE] Maybe the [Ghost Dance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dance) movement was the last great attempt to answer that question (based on my very superficial knowledge, of course). ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/8 "2008-01-10T01:39:10Z")
[QUOTE=Koxinga] Maybe the [Ghost Dance](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_dance) movement was the last great attempt to answer that question (based on my very superficial knowledge, of course). [/QUOTE] That is not incorrect. Wevoka promoted a turning away from debauchery and a return to the Old Ways. We would subsequently be reunited with our elders and ancestors, and the grasslands, forests and game would return. Rather like NDN Heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/9 "2008-01-10T02:16:32Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] My question: have the native americans retained any legends about htis? By the time of Louis and Clark, the plains indians had fully learned how to ride and care for horses-one could say that they “re-domesticated” these animals. Anybody know more? [/QUOTE] I’m not sure that plains Indians would have learned to catch and tame feral horses before they were exposed to the use of domesticated horses, either directly from the Spanish, or from neighboring tribes that had previously acquired them. At least initially, I suspect that the first horses were obtained by either by stealing already tames horses from the Spanish or catching ones that had gone astray. Later on, Indians in more remote areas probably obtained them in similar ways from adjacent groups. ---
**Author:** ![adirondack\_mike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5a626/32.png) [@adirondack\_mike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adirondack_mike)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/10 "2008-01-10T03:41:59Z")
Origin of horses in the [Blackfoot culture.](http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/bae/bulletin159/600/image306.htm) The native cultures where and still are to a large part oral traditions. In my perusal of myths and legends there are many stories that stand out to be influenced by current events, or events that occurred subsequent to the stories origin. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/11 "2008-01-10T08:54:13Z")
By trading? I give you a horse - you give me your daughter 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/12 "2008-01-10T09:00:58Z")
Indian: But I also need a stallion! Whitie: Okeh. I want your three daughters. ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/13 "2008-01-10T15:26:01Z")
[QUOTE=Gymnopithys] Indian: But I also need a stallion! Whitie: Okeh. I want your three daughters. [/QUOTE] Yeah, because everyone knows we value horses far more than we do our women. :dubious: What the first version wasn’t offensive enough, so you tweaked it? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/14 "2008-01-10T22:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Gymnopithys] Indian: But I also need a stallion! Whitie: Okeh. I want your three daughters. [/QUOTE] [Moderating] Okay, that’s enough of that. Anyone who wishes to comment further on this may take it to the pit. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Othar\_the\_Tooth\_Collector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Othar\_the\_Tooth\_Collector](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othar_the_Tooth_Collector)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/15 "2008-01-11T04:16:24Z")
I’ve heard stories of Native Americans trading slaves for horses, but not their own family. ---
**Author:** ![Othar\_the\_Tooth\_Collector](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Othar\_the\_Tooth\_Collector](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Othar_the_Tooth_Collector)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/16 "2008-01-11T04:37:16Z")
[QUOTE=adirondack\_mike] Origin of horses in the [Blackfoot culture.](http://www.sil.si.edu/DigitalCollections/bae/bulletin159/600/image306.htm) [/QUOTE] Man, that legend really flies in the face of the whole “noble savage” myth that the Indians hunted responsibly and used every part of the animal. The main character goes on an animal killing spree to make more attractive clothing for himself, killing multiple elk just for the teeth (two teeth from each elk, to be used as beads), strangling multiple eagles just for their feathers, killing a coyote to be used as bait to catch the eagles, goats for the tips of their horns, and porcupines for their skins. Nothing is said about how wasteful he is, and he is rewarded by a god for his efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/17 "2008-01-11T04:45:38Z")
[QUOTE=CateAyo] Yeah, because everyone knows we value horses far more than we do our women. :dubious: [/QUOTE] Sometimes yes. A peasant woman was quoted in Vietnam as saying if her husband, the father of her children died, it would be sad, but if the water buffalo died, the family would starve. With the Indians, depends how bad the horses were needed for hunting. ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 9:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/18 "2008-01-11T09:31:24Z")
I didn’t mean to be offensive. I sincerely apologize. Anyway, don’t worry CateAyo, Indian used horses :smack: , ambushed whitie, recovered daughters 😛😃 ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/19 "2008-01-11T18:43:34Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] With the Indians, depends how bad the horses were needed for hunting. [/QUOTE] No, as an Indian I must disagree. The customs and attitudes of others are what they are I am sure, but even in the minority of Native American tribes and nations that were patriarchal, women were not considered property to be owned, traded and used for barter. ---
**Author:** ![CateAyo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@CateAyo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CateAyo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919/20 "2008-01-11T18:45:29Z")
[QUOTE=Gymnopithys] I didn’t mean to be offensive. I sincerely apologize. [/QUOTE] Thank you. Your willingness to apologize speaks well of your integrity and character. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-the-plains-indians-explain-the-coming-of-the-horse/432919.md?page=2)