# How do they arrest blind people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 12, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255 "2006-10-12T23:16:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/1 "2006-10-12T23:16:53Z")
Well, they can’t just flash badges. If I were a blind criminal, I’d accuse anyone telling me to accompany them to the station for being kidnappers and probably rapists, too, and beat them savagely if they laid hands on me. I’d be entitled to that, right? Or, can I just go about kidnapping blind people, telling them I’m a cop? Do they have some kind of secret copcode you learn in blindschool? ---
**Author:** ![spingears](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@spingears](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spingears)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/2 "2006-10-13T00:16:20Z")
[QUOTE=yelimS] Well, they can’t just flash badges. If I were a blind criminal, I’d accuse anyone telling me to accompany them to the station for being kidnappers and probably rapists, too, and beat them savagely if they laid hands on me. I’d be entitled to that, right? Or, can I just go about kidnapping blind people, telling them I’m a cop? Do they have some kind of secret copcode you learn in blindschool? [/QUOTE] There are mighty few blind criminals left on the streets anymore since they have a hard time effecting an escape. They are quickly aprehended, locked up and put out of business. If you find one just mirandize him and lock the cuffs on him. If you were one you wouldn’t last long. you’d be tripped up, tied up, shut up, and dragged off to jail. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![yelimS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/54ee81/32.png) [@yelimS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yelimS)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/3 "2006-10-13T00:22:57Z")
But the problem is, anyone can do that. How do they make sure blind people aren’t kidnapped by people pretending to be cops? Or, perhaps more realistic, how do they make sure blind people don’t use that as an excuse not to follow suit? If someone has no way of making sure they are talking to a real cop, why should they do as he says? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/4 "2006-10-13T00:55:34Z")
You get your buddy to go back to the cruiser and blip the siren a couple of times. Anyway, cops _sound_ like cops. Police stations sound, well… police station-y. And blind people are extremely good at working out this sort of thing anyway, by relying on subtle cues. I doubt the blind person would be under any illusions for very long at all. Now _deaf_ people on the other hand… How the heck to you mirandize them? Flashcards? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/5 "2006-10-13T01:04:21Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] You get your buddy to go back to the cruiser and blip the siren a couple of times. Anyway, cops _sound_ like cops. Police stations sound, well… police station-y. And blind people are extremely good at working out this sort of thing anyway, by relying on subtle cues. I doubt the blind person would be under any illusions for very long at all. Now _deaf_ people on the other hand… How the heck to you mirandize them? Flashcards? 😃 [/QUOTE] They could write it down. Probably some cops ARE trained in ESL. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/6 "2006-10-13T01:07:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Q. Are police required to provide interpreters to inform deaf persons of their Miranda rights? > > A. Yes. Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973 requires police departments receiving any form of federal assistance to provide qualified sign interpreters for communication with hearing impaired persons who rely on sign language. The Department of Justice (DOJ) Regulations pursuant to Section 504, 28 C.F.R. Part 42, specifically mandate this accommodation. However, the ability of “qualified” sign interpreters to accurately and complete explain the Miranda warnings to deaf persons is often questioned. See: Legal Rights: The Guide for Deaf and Hard of Hearing People from the Gallaudet University Press. [http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/mirandaqa.htm](http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/mirandaqa.htm) ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/7 "2006-10-13T01:14:05Z")
I have seen on a cop show a cop handing his badge to a blind person so they could “read” it with their hands. Made perfect sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/8 "2006-10-13T01:15:15Z")
[QUOTE=Gfactor] [http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/mirandaqa.htm](http://usgovinfo.about.com/cs/mirandarights/a/mirandaqa.htm) [/QUOTE] Better resource: [http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp?c=foINKQMBF&b=101219](http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp?c=foINKQMBF&b=101219) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/9 "2006-10-13T02:23:39Z")
The arresting officer identifies himself as a police officer. At that point, legally speaking, he had established his authority to arrest somebody. He is not further required to prove himself to the arrestee’s satisfaction. (As always IANAL.) ---
**Author:** ![Sonia\_Montdore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Sonia\_Montdore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonia_Montdore)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/10 "2006-10-13T02:31:07Z")
After the arrest, can a blind person be tried? After all, justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/11 "2006-10-13T02:35:58Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The arresting officer identifies himself as a police officer. At that point, legally speaking, he had established his authority to arrest somebody. He is not further required to prove himself to the arrestee’s satisfaction. (As always IANAL.) [/QUOTE] So blind people are legally obliged to submit to absolutely anyone who claims to be a police officer? Saying that the police officer has “identified himself” as such is begging the question. He has identified himself _how_, exactly? Merely saying the words does not establish anything as far as I can see. Do blind people have no right of self defense against any random person off the street who claims to be a cop? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/12 "2006-10-13T02:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] The arresting officer identifies himself as a police officer. At that point, legally speaking, he had established his authority to arrest somebody. He is not further required to prove himself to the arrestee’s satisfaction. (As always IANAL.) [/QUOTE] Right. I think we covered that issue in recent thread. The issue isn’t whether the arrestee has sufficient evidence to believe the officer has authority, but whether the officer had legal authority to arrest. Of course the arrestee’s understanding is relevant in a civil suit for assault where the defendant argues self defense, and in a criminal charge for resisting arrest. ---
**Author:** ![daffyduck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ec9cab/32.png) [@daffyduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/daffyduck)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/13 "2006-10-13T02:48:32Z")
It all depends on the situation. Cops don’t just walk up and grab someone unless they are in the act of committing a crime and even then it has to be something that demands immediate action. Being blind in that situation is irrelevant. If they’re serving a warrant, you can stay behind your locked door and call the police station to verify that officers have been dispatched to your address. This is true for sighted people as well. Anyone can put on a uniform and wave a badge around and the police are aware of this. If you’re the blind guy walking through a neighborhood where a burglary has recently been committed and they decide to question you, the situation is no different than if you were sighted. You talk, they make a judgment and if they don’t buy your story they ask you to turn around and let them cuff you. All the cops I’ve ridden with were professionals and they acted like it. The vast majority of arrests are very low key. _I’d accuse anyone telling me to accompany them to the station for being kidnappers and probably rapists, too, and beat them savagely if they laid hands on me. I’d be entitled to that, right?_ Let me know how that goes. Lots of people feel “entitled” to resist arrest. They still end up cuffed and if they get seriously physical, they get their ass kicked and then get cuffed. And charged with resisting arrest. Even if you have a valid reason to believe the cop isn’t a cop, it isn’t going to change the immediate situation. You’re going to go down, period. They might throw out the resisting arrest charge later in court, but that is a separate issue. In the right now, you’re resisting arrest and you’re going to lose. Watch Cops sometime. The police give back whatever they get from you. If you run, they run after you. If you’re polite, they’re polite. If you say, “I don’t believe you’re a cop”, they’re going to work with you as long as you don’t get belligerent. They aren’t going to be the ones to escalate the situation until you force them into it, but if you think the “beat them savagely” strategy is ever going to work at any time for any reason, you’re just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/14 "2006-10-13T02:54:45Z")
How do they arrest blind people? They throw them in braille I’m sorry ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/15 "2006-10-13T03:08:33Z")
So is a blind person legally obliged to submit to apprehension or abduction by any random person who claims to be a cop? Yes or no? Do blind people have no right of defense as lomg as the assailant says “I am a police officer?” Can a serial killer pray on blind women by telling him he’s a cop and they must get into his car? What defense would they have in this scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/16 "2006-10-13T03:58:43Z")
What do you think Diogenes? A badge is some kind of magical amulet? If a person wants to fake being a police officer to commit rape, he’s probably going to get a fake badge and uniform. Where do you draw the line? _“Sure those guy pulled up in a marked police cruiser with their siren and lights on. And yes, they were in uniform and identified themselves as policemen and showed me their badges and IDs and let me call the police station to confirm their identity. But how was I supposed to know it wasn’t an elaborate prank being perpetrated by the cast and crew of Punk’d? So I kicked the one that looked the most like Ashton Kutcher in the groin and made a run for it. And that’s when the other one tasered me. Your Honor, I’m sure you’ll agree I acted reasonably and will let me go now that I’ve explained what happened.”_ ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/17 "2006-10-13T04:00:20Z")
People seem to be expecting some sort of a system for this. Does it happen often enough that there actually has to be a system? It’s true that some people do impersonate police officers to abduct, rape, and hurt others; but I don’t know that such events are exceedingly common. If the person was a police officer, and the blind (or other) person resists, they’re in a world of trouble. If the person was not a police officer, and the blind (or other) person resists, they’re on perfect ground as far as the law is concerned. Like everyone else, they have to make a judgement call based on what information they have and there are consequences for erroneous judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/18 "2006-10-13T04:19:27Z")
The general rule (in some states, anyway) seems to be that self defense is not a good defense against a uniformed officer who identifies himself (I’m a police officer. You are under arrest.) and uses lawful force. I didn’t find any cases that talked about what happens if a blind person can’t see the uniform. (I didn’t look that hard, so I’m not saying there aren’t any). What rule do you propose? 1. Blind people can always resist arrest because they won’t be able to see the uniform or read the identification card? 2. Braille identification cards? If we do this, we aren’t really getting that far, because the police will want to detain and pat down many (not all, certainly) suspects if they have to get close enough to permit the suspect to inspect a braille identification card. If you carve an exception to _Terry_, and permit similar self-defense, we are back to number 1 in most cases. 3. Police travel with a notary, who will certify the officer’s identity. Of course, how do you know it’s a real notary? 4. We have a mushy rule that permits resistance where it is reasonable, perhaps taking visual impairment into account, but does not require the impossible of either party. 5. I’ve forgotten what I was going to list next. Except in a case where you have a good reason to doubt it’s a police officer, the best move would be not to resist. If you do, you’ll probably wind up getting hurt, possibly with no legal remedy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/19 "2006-10-13T04:28:58Z")
[quote=If the person was a police officer, and the blind (or other) person resists, they’re in a world of trouble. If the person was not a police officer, and the blind (or other) person resists, they’re on perfect ground as far as the law is concerned.[/quote] And how is that person supposed to know the difference? It seems to me that they are perfectly sound legal ground to resist either way. In order to convict someone of a crime, it is necessary to show that the person _intended_ to commit a crime. If you can’t prove an individual knew that the person attempting to abduct her was a police officer, then it can’t be a crime for her to resist. The words “I am a police officer” establish nothing in themselves and are a lot easier to fake than acquiring a phony uniform or squad car. There has to be a higher bar than just words. It sounds completey irrational to me that ablind woman is allowed to resist if Ted Bundy grabs her off the street, says he’s a cop and tries to stuff her in his Volkswagon, but she’s not allowed to resist if the same thing happens to her experientially but the person really is a cop. It seems to me that until the cop can prove to a rational degree of certainty that he’s really a cop (something beyond just saying it), then any target for apprehension still retains every right to resist…including the use of deadly force, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Rigamarole](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/77aa72/32.png) [@Rigamarole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rigamarole)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2006, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255/20 "2006-10-13T04:34:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sonia Montdore] After all, justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done. [/QUOTE] But isn’t justice itself blind? Seems kinda hypocritical. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-arrest-blind-people/376255.md?page=2)