# How do they deport people of unknown origin?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [June 7, 2012, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362 "2012-06-07T08:36:39Z")
**Posts on this page:** 16
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/1 "2012-06-07T08:36:39Z")
Supposing you are picked up by immigration enforcers and can’t produce proof you are a citizen.
Maybe you really are a citizen but are a homeless drifter or anarchist with no ID or references.
Maybe you are here illegally but have a good story, or just refuse to tell them where you are from.
Maybe you are here illegally but are senile, have mental issues, or a disability and can’t communicate this information.
So you can’t stay here. Where do they send you?
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### Author:  [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 8:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/2 "2012-06-07T08:50:30Z")
In France, they don’t. How could you deport someone without knowing where he’s from? They end up staying, they might be jailed from time to time for not complying with the court order to leave the territory, but otherwise they can’t be deported forcefully anywhere.
And I doubt it could be much different in the USA. Even if you deport the guy to some half-randomly picked country, why would this other country let him in without any evidence that he’s a citizen?
I guess the exception would be if they’re caught while crossing the border, since then you can send them back on the other side of this border, without having to figure out where they were originally from.
ETA : and your scenarios are too complicated. Much simpler : “I won’t tell where I’m from”. What can you do about that?
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### Author:  [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/3 "2012-06-07T09:46:14Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> ETA : and your scenarios are too complicated. Much simpler : “I won’t tell where I’m from”. What can you do about that?
“OK then, we’ll just assume you’re from Kabul.”
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/4 "2012-06-07T09:49:31Z")
> [@clairobscur](#):
>
> In France, they don’t. How could you deport someone without knowing where he’s from? They end up staying, they might be jailed from time to time for not complying with the court order to leave the territory, but otherwise they can’t be deported forcefully anywhere.
Same for Spain: many Africans do not have any documents, or cannot be identified in other way. Europeans are generally easier to identify, both because many of us are so used to carrying a driver’s license or other ID around that we don’t think of ditching it, and because language lines match map lines better than they do in Africa. Latin Americans’ preferred “undocumented” path is overstaying their visit, but even before the economy went downslope, a strong education campaign had lowered the amount of undocumented immigrants a lot. For many of them “getting papers” is pretty easy, once it has been explained; many who were coming undocumented fall under “emigrant return” laws, being the grandchildren of emigrants.
People trying to jump the fence in Melilla can be pushed back to Morocco, but that’s not a deportation per se.
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### Author:  [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/5 "2012-06-07T11:15:40Z")
International waters. Via catapult. If they make it back to shore, you grant them citizenship. (no, not _a_ citizen ship, they’d be lucky to get a mule)
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### Author:  [@Donnerwetter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donnerwetter)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/6 "2012-06-07T11:17:25Z")
In the case of Germany, hiding your identity and your country of origin is essential if you want to emigrate to Germany and settle there permanently.
When the immigration authorities don’t know where you’re coming from, they can’t send you back. Simple and easy.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/7 "2012-06-07T11:17:45Z")
Stuff him on a ship to nowhere. See [Man without a country.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Without_a_Country)
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### Author:  [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/8 "2012-06-07T12:58:05Z")
Common problem with people arriving in Canada claiming asylum a few years ago. They would use a false passport to get on the airplane then shred them in the toilet before landing. Without documents, their home country may also demand proof this is their citizen. (why should they do the legwork, you’re the one who wants to deport him…)
Even more interesting for a place like Somalia, where there is no government of birth registry. IIRC, there was a big deal a while ago where the Canadian government paid the government of one area of Somalia to accept a deported criminal even though he was from a different area - since they claimed to be the government of all Somalia.
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### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/9 "2012-06-07T15:23:33Z")
I wonder if a country could pay a really poor country (like Chad) to take in all illegal immigrants. Speaking of that, does a country have a LEGAL obligation to return a person to their country of origin? You’re here illegally from Mexico but we’ll deport you to Bir Tawil sort of thing?
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/10 "2012-06-07T15:36:44Z")
It’s not that we have a legal obligation to return you to your home country. It’s that your home country has a legal obligation to take you back. If we try to deport a Pakistani or Guatemalan or some other random undocumented person to Mexico, the Mexicans will refuse to take him.
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### Author:  [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/11 "2012-06-07T15:46:36Z")
Plus, you are on shaky legal ground I imagine, sending someone to a country that has no connection to them. (unless you hope they will interrogate them for you?) But yes, generally why does some other country want your rejects? They will only cause problems there; that country is stuck with the same dilemma, how to they get rd of them if nobody wants to take them?If you are basically sending a person overseas knowing they will be plunked into a prison camp for no obvious crime, how is that different from imprisoning them here? It’s still clearly a human rights violation.
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### Author:  [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/12 "2012-06-07T15:52:35Z")
The US is not a signatory to the convention to reduce statelessness. But, there are still legal obstacles to removing people who lack any citizenship status. There’s a complicated hierarchy of to where a person may be deported described in [Immigration and Nuturalization Act 241](http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/SLB/HTML/SLB/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-29/0-0-0-6631.html); long story short if the person in question is not a citizen, national or resident of any known country, and no country consents to take them, the US is in a bit of a pickle.
However, if a stateless person leaves the US voluntarily, the US does not have to take them back. To my knowledge, they don’t take them back. The stateless person is a “hot potato” and has become some other country’s problem.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/13 "2012-06-07T22:06:31Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> Supposing you are picked up by immigration enforcers and can’t produce proof you are a citizen.
>
> Maybe you really are a citizen but are a homeless drifter or anarchist with no ID or references.
At the risk of starting some kind of flame war…
I have black hair and am often mistaken for hispanic, when I was in Texas I also was adamant about not carrying ID unless I was driving etc. I was harassed a few times by police for ID, BUT once I talked to them and they heard my US accent and flawless English they backed off and none pushed the issue to calling immigration.
So you have to take into account the person’s accent, mastery of English, race, etc.
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### Author:  [@jackdavinci](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jackdavinci)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/14 "2012-06-07T22:31:46Z")
> [@grude](#):
>
> I also was adamant about not carrying ID unless I was driving etc.
I assume if they were real dicks about it and brought you in, you at least could point to your ID in their database.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/15 "2012-06-07T22:34:58Z")
> **[Opinion: Immigration: Another U.S. citizen deported](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/opinion-la/story/2012-01-05/opinion-immigration-another-u-s-citizen-deported)**
>
> This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links.
BTW if you do some research with google you will see this is not a new issue, hell they even made a comedy about this issue called Born In East LA.
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### Author:  [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2012, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-deport-people-of-unknown-origin/624362/16 "2012-06-07T22:38:28Z")
> [@jackdavinci](#):
>
> I assume if they were real dicks about it and brought you in, you at least could point to your ID in their database.
True also I was never claiming to not be a US citizen etc.
You can look up the case of Jackadrian Turner, a teenage girl who was a US citizen and got deported to Colombia. She lied however about her citizenship status.