# How do they do magic tricks involving random audience members? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 19, 2004, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972 "2004-09-19T10:29:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/81 "2018-02-20T04:37:09Z")
scrutinous, a. Now rare. (ˈskruːtɪnəs) Also 6 scrutinus, 7 scrutenous. [ad. F. †scrutineux (1512 in Godefr.), f. scrutin scrutiny: see -ous.] Closely examining; searching. 1599 Nashe Lenten Stuffe 21 How impetrable hee was in mollyfying the adamantinest tiranny of mankinde‥those that be scrutinus to pry into, let them [etc.]. 1618 M. Baret Vineyard Horsem. i. Ded. to King 9 Although my Artlesse pen hath not made it so delightfull as to reuiue the dead senses of all scrutenous braines, which no Tullies Eloquence as yet could euer perswade. 1745 Eliza Heywood Female Spect. No. 3 (1748) I. 159 They cannot be too scrutinous into the principles of the persons entrusted with the direction of them. 1822–29 Good’s Study Med. (ed. 3) V. 695 Dr. Gordon, after a scrutinous examination, has added his testimony to the same fact. 1891 Blackw. Mag. CL. 815/2 Don’t let us be too searching and scrutinous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/82 "2018-02-20T14:29:12Z")
> [@Dr.Hackenbush](#): > > So you won’t take my word for it, but you would rather take my word for it through reference and citation than looking for yourself and using your own mind? You’re setting us both up for a lose-lose situation. And since I suck at being a Rube, you’re not gonna find me playing along in quite the way you want. You want me to either cough up what you’re demanding, or roll over and die right? > Yeah, right. How about stop being chickenshit, watch the video and then get back to me? > > … > > I wish you would just say to me, “I think you’re an idiot.” > Cause then I could just say “okay, that’s fine,” and let this little back-and-forth die (even though the burden of proof could then be transferred to you and I could be a douche and demand that you show some citations that prove that I’m wrong). But really, who cares? > I just thought it was unfair that a few folks, particularly Anamnesis, were being treated like illogical beings for twigging to how dishonest and dirty “magic” really is. If that bugs you for some reason, hey that’s cool too. 😃 **Moderator Note** **Dr. Hackenbush** , insults are not permitted in this forum, or in any forum on this site outside the BBQ Pit. Since you are new here, I am not issuing an official warning at this point. However, you need to dial it way back if you want to continue to post here. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/83 "2018-02-20T17:39:32Z")
I saw a magic trick (can’t remember for sure, but I think it was David Blaine) where the trick involved a vanishing car magically appearing in the pocket of an audience member. The magician nor any possible accomplices were in contact with the audience member. The card appeared in a pocket that it did not seem you could “reverse pick pocket” it into without the person noticing. So it had to be a plant. This trick turned me off. That’s not magic, it’s acting. Like Blaine’s so-called levitation trick. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/84 "2018-02-20T17:48:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I saw a magic trick (can’t remember for sure, but I think it was David Blaine) where the trick involved a vanishing car magically appearing in the pocket of an audience member. The magician nor any possible accomplices were in contact with the audience member. The card appeared in a pocket that it did not seem you could “reverse pick pocket” it into without the person noticing. So it had to be a plant. > > This trick turned me off. That’s not magic, it’s acting. Like Blaine’s so-called levitation trick. The most amazing part wasn’t making the car disappear-it was slipping it into the guy’s pocket without anyone noticing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/85 "2018-02-20T19:13:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The most amazing part wasn’t making the car disappear-it was slipping it into the guy’s pocket without anyone noticing. Curses! Well, it was a small car. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/86 "2018-02-20T19:46:03Z")
That actually caught me out, because making a car disappear isn’t too out of line with what some of the overhyped magicians like Blaine would do (method: Stop the camera, drive the car away, re-start the camera). So I was just figuring that the car that appeared in the guy’s pocket would be a toy. It took me a while to realize that there was an obvious typo that would make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/87 "2018-02-20T20:02:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That actually caught me out, because making a car disappear isn’t too out of line with what some of the overhyped magicians like Blaine would do (method: Stop the camera, drive the car away, re-start the camera). So I was just figuring that the car that appeared in the guy’s pocket would be a toy. > > It took me a while to realize that there was an obvious typo that would make more sense. Same here. Lesson: be more scrutinous. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/88 "2018-02-20T20:03:09Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > It took me a while to realize that there was an obvious typo that would make more sense. So it was a _cat_ that appeared in his pocket? And it didn’t scratch the hell out of him? Now that’s amazing! ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/89 "2018-02-20T20:56:07Z")
> [@Carnick](#): > > I was just at a David Copperfield show tonight, and most of his tricks involved the use of seemingly randomly chosen audience members. > …snipped… > > His schtick was he’d toss an object into the crowd, and when someone grabbed it they would show that person on a large tv screen, holding the object. The lucky fella would then go up on stage to participate. > > …snipped… I was that guy once. At a David Copperfield show. Along with a bunch of other people. It was a grande finale trick, where he disappeared a bunch of us at once. I will point out that beforehand, as we got on stage, he had assistants asking us to promise that we weren’t professional magicians and some other crap. Afterward, David Copperfield himself swore us to secrecy (in the little room where we got to see a previously filmed version of the trick). More about that later… \* Without going into details about the trick, I was amazed at the degree of buy-in we volunteers demonstrated. It was as if we were co-opted into being performers for the trick- we wanted it to work well! We moved when and where we were told. To the point that some people helped guide those who were confused a bit. It was like some kind of hypnosis (although we really had no contact with Copperfield until after the trick). Maybe more like Stockholm Syndrome? I have no idea what they would have done if someone sat on his hands and flatly insisted that they weren’t going anywhere except by magic teleportation. \*It only struck me sometime later that this was probably only stagecraft. If we were magicians or reporters out to steal Copperfield’s secrets, surely we would lie about it and agree to be in the trick. Afterward, there was no reason to swear us to secrecy. I could tell you all about how and where we moved, but that would not explain the core of the trick, which is how we moved off-stage and into the audience without people noticing. I also think a big part of the trick involves co-opting the active participation of the volunteers. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/90 "2018-02-20T21:03:26Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > I was that guy once. At a David Copperfield show. Along with a bunch of other people. > > It was a grande finale trick, where he disappeared a bunch of us at once. > > I will point out that beforehand, as we got on stage, he had assistants asking us to promise that we weren’t professional magicians and some other crap. Afterward, David Copperfield himself swore us to secrecy (in the little room where we got to see a previously filmed version of the trick). More about that later… \* > > Without going into details about the trick, I was amazed at the degree of buy-in we volunteers demonstrated. It was as if we were co-opted into being performers for the trick- we wanted it to work well! We moved when and where we were told. To the point that some people helped guide those who were confused a bit. It was like some kind of hypnosis (although we really had no contact with Copperfield until after the trick). Maybe more like Stockholm Syndrome? I have no idea what they would have done if someone sat on his hands and flatly insisted that they weren’t going anywhere except by magic teleportation. > > \*It only struck me sometime later that this was probably only stagecraft. If we were magicians or reporters out to steal Copperfield’s secrets, surely we would lie about it and agree to be in the trick. Afterward, there was no reason to swear us to secrecy. I could tell you all about how and where we moved, but that would not explain the core of the trick, which is how we moved off-stage and into the audience without people noticing. I also think a big part of the trick involves co-opting the active participation of the volunteers. Pretty much the way it was described in a court case I read about in which someone claimed they were injured during the trick. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/91 "2018-02-20T21:19:10Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Pretty much the way it was described in a court case I read about in which someone claimed they were injured during the trick. Prolly from a billy club, for not moving as instructed! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/92 "2018-02-20T21:25:14Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Prolly from a billy club, for not moving as instructed! 😉 [Not exactly.](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3625583/Abracadebacle-wondered-David-Copperfield-does-Stooge-claims-left-brain-damaged-bungled-vanishing-trick-reveals-magician-s-secret-techniques-sensational-three-year-legal-battle.html) The claimant says that he tripped and fell in a dimly lit backstage area after being “spirited away”. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/93 "2018-02-20T21:30:43Z")
Re: David Copperfield and “helpful” audience members. We discussed [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0dRhJ13wxo) “trick” a while back. He makes a train car “disappear”. In addition to the usual Copperfield nonsense of timely edits and big arm waves, note around 3:25 how the people underneath the cloth don’t seem to be looking up as it starts to head over them. Let’s face it, wouldn’t you look up then to see if the car was still under the cloth??? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/94 "2018-02-20T21:41:14Z")
Here’s something to remember, and is accurate 99+% of the time. Whenever a cover, sheet or other obscuring device is introduced to a magic trick, you can be sure that it is hiding something that, if visible, would give away the trick or make it look non-magical. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/95 "2018-02-20T21:48:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Good magicians will also often have different techniques for doing “the same trick” on different occasions. That way, when people try to figure out how it was done, they’ll say “No, it couldn’t have been that, because that one time when he did it…” and “it couldn’t have been that other thing, because that other time…”, when he really did use both of those methods. I suspect something along the same lines but slightly more subtle. Because most people haven’t seen the same magician perform the same trick twice. But having multiple methods allows him to offer the audience options which seem to rule out all methods. For example, suppose he can do the “same” trick by using a trick prop, or by having a plant, or by “forcing” the choice. If he offers the audience a choice of their prop or his, then if they elect for their prop he has to go to one of the other methods. But if they don’t then he uses the trick prop and does something which clearly rules out a plant or a “force”. Then the audience themselves will rule out a trick prop since “he offered a choice of any prop we wanted”, not realizing that had the audience provided their own prop then he would have done the trick slightly differently, in a manner which enabled one the alternative methods. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/96 "2018-02-20T22:04:38Z")
The dirty secret of magic is that often the tricks are just so dead simple and dumb that you wouldn’t believe it. Often a gigantic show with props and whatever comes down to a dead simple trick a ten year old could do for his grandma. The skill comes from the performer confusing the audience so that they don’t realize that the nub of the trick is a simple “pick a card, any card” chestnut that can be done in dozens of ways. Or sometimes it’s way harder than that. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [February 20, 2018, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/97 "2018-02-20T22:32:13Z")
> [@anamnesis](#): > > It’s entirely possible they could have an elaborate setup back there with someone skilled at quickly writing backwards (and perhaps also suspended on a cable?) who is transcribing with a white grease pen, or something similar that resembles chalk…? My guess is that the “chalkboard” is actually some kind of fabric or a thin sheet of plastic. The “guess” is being written on the fabric offstage as the trick is happening. As the dark shadowy figures take the chalkboard off the chains and put it into its rolling rack, they slide the fabric into frame. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/98 "2018-02-21T11:31:14Z")
> [@Dr.Hackenbush](#): > > {…} Here is a very abridged list of terms either coined or used regularly (often both) by magicians to describe the various skills of the trade; > back palm, crimp, ditch, force, gimmick, load, mark, PLANT, riffle, sleeving… > In fact the conjuring fraternity has more than one word for a plant; Confederate, Stooge and Shill are the first three to come to mind. {…} Ya know, within the context of said list the word “plant” has a particular meaning, don’t ya??? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/99 "2018-02-21T11:53:27Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > I was a volunteer in a magic trick in Vegas last year and I’m certain that the others he picked weren’t plants (they were members of a large high school tour group who’d have noticed if a stranger suddenly claimed to be one of them). > > Not sure how you think you’re disagreeing with anything there. Like you say, a pro magician will tell you basic public domain stuff but not tell you specific tricks because revealing your colleagues’ trade secrets would be pretty crappy behaviour. > > You can’t copyright magic tricks. It’s not legally permissable and even if it were copyrighting the trick would itself mean that you were telling everyone how your trick works so it’d be self-defeating. But magicians use a lot of time and skill to create their tricks, so they need some way to protect them, hence the Magic Circle’s code of secrecy. Actually IIRC you can claim a magic trick is a trade secret to gain some protections for it without revealing it. This was how Penn Jillette was able to sue somebody and win who got ahold of his laptop and threatened to sell his tricks online. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972/100 "2018-02-21T14:31:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The most amazing part wasn’t making the car disappear-it was slipping it into the guy’s pocket without anyone noticing. Once I was on the subway when a guy walked through the car performing magic tricks. He asked me to help with one. He asked me to make a fist, then he put his hand over my fist. He removed it and said “ is there anything in your hand?” I said no. I did not think there was anything in my hand. Then he asked me to open it and a whole bunch of small nerf balls flew out. All I can say was that this guy was good. Best as I can figure, he used a small straw or something to insert the nerf balls into my hand, but I did not feel it. And this wasn’t Copperfield, it was just some guy on the subway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-do-magic-tricks-involving-random-audience-members/264972.md?page=6)