# How do they name the Popes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670 "2003-09-05T05:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Peppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@Peppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peppy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/1 "2003-09-05T05:14:46Z")
I’ve been reading about the Inquisition. One thing that has always puzzled me was how they named the Popes. For instance: Benedict III Pius IV Innocent II Paul III Sixtus IV The guys who became popes already had names. A line reads “Giovanni Caraffa became Pope in 1555, taking the name of Paul IV” other head scratching examples: " We are now in the clutches of perhaps the most savage wolf the world has ever seen," remarked Giovanni di Medici, the future Pope Leo X. “Either we flee or he will, without a doubt, devour us.” "The election was held and, as expected, Rodrigo Borgia won. The new Pope Alexander VI could barely contain his glee. ‘I am pope. I am pope’ Why did they become Caraffa I or Borgia I? Thanks ---
**Author:** ![Peppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@Peppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peppy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/2 "2003-09-05T05:17:38Z")
opps, Why DIDN’T they become Caraffa I or Borgia I? ---
**Author:** ![Peppy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c37758/32.png) [@Peppy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peppy)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/3 "2003-09-05T05:30:17Z")
FOUND THE ANSWER: Is it correct? Response to how does the pope choose his name? K Each pope is free to choose any name he wishes. I believe that most popes have chosen the name of a saint or previous pope whom they admired – to act as a special patron saint (model and intercessor). Out of respect for the first pope’s uniqueness, no other pope has chosen the name “Peter.” The last two popes, John Paul I and II, chose their names to honor the previous two popes, John XXIII and Paul VI. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/4 "2003-09-05T05:46:16Z")
The tradition of a person entering a new religious vocation taking on a new name is rather old. In religious orders, it probably is related to “setting aside one’s old life.” My guess would be that at some point, popes began following the same tradition to indicate that they were now removed from their old lives as they took on the responsibility for the whole church. (Of course, in the cases of the Borgias and the Medicis, they did not always actually put aside much, having already set aside their consciences, but the tradition was established before they came to power.) The earliest references to popes taking new names that I have found occurred in the tenth century (at a time, ironically, when there was a period of corruption that was only exceeded by the later Renaissance popes). However, it is not clear to me that the taking of a new name _began_ at that time, or if that was simply the period when we began to have enough information regarding the biographies of popes to know what their pre-papal names were. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/5 "2003-09-05T06:20:38Z")
I have no cite, but I swear I heard on a brainfood channel show that each Pope is allowed to either a) keep his name, or b) take the name of any previous Pope. (Still allowing for the convention of not taking Peter out of respect for the first, which I’d never heard of until this thread, but sounds reasonable enough.) ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/6 "2003-09-05T06:26:02Z")
Does that mean some day someone will be Pope Steve I? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/7 "2003-09-05T06:57:57Z")
Been there, done that:[Pope Stephen I](http://din-timelines.com/cyclopedia/List_of_popes.shtml#List_of_popes). (I believe he was Steve to his friends. Emperors, kings, patiarchs, etc. had to use his full name. 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/8 "2003-09-05T07:07:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ellis Dee \* > \*\*I have no cite, but I swear I heard on a brainfood channel show that each Pope is allowed to either a) keep his name, or b) take the name of any previous Pope. (Still allowing for the convention of not taking Peter out of respect for the first, which I’d never heard of until this thread, but sounds reasonable enough.) \*\* I just read exactly that in a book about Galileo. Your own name, or the name of any previous Pope except Peter. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/9 "2003-09-05T08:01:16Z")
Was the book _Galileo’s Daughter_, by chance? I read that a while back, and just may be mixing it up with the copious amounts of TLC/Discovery/History Channel I used to watch before they went to hell. (And I got digital cable. Go Tech TV!) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/10 "2003-09-05T08:04:04Z")
I believe some kings have also adopted names different from their given names although I cannot provide any examples. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/11 "2003-09-05T08:16:46Z")
As I recall it is common to take the name of a saint as your ‘Catholic’ name. Often you are already given the name of a saint as a middle name and either reaffirm it at first confession or pick another one (making it so you have 2 middle names instead of just one) Could be wrong though as I never did get so far as to take confession… And the ‘rules’ found make sense to me. Including the not taking the name Peter out of respect. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/12 "2003-09-05T10:23:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Smeghead \* > \*\*I just read exactly that in a book about Galileo. Your own name, or the name of any previous Pope except Peter. \*\* Seems as if John Paul I, first Pope ever to bear a double name, sort of violated that rule. He explicitly said his name was a reference to John XXIII and Paul VI, but choosing two names instead of one surely must have upset some people. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/13 "2003-09-05T10:26:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sailor \* > \*\*I believe some kings have also adopted names different from their given names although I cannot provide any examples. \*\* George VI, Elizabeth’s father, was born as Albert Frederick Arthur George, and used to be called Prince Arthur, until his brother Edward abdicated due to the Wallis Simpson thing. When he became King, he chose to be called George, allegedly out of respect for Victoria’s wish that no British monarch should ever bear the name Albert. ---
**Author:** ![MalFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@MalFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MalFrog)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/14 "2003-09-05T10:26:53Z")
We had Pope John. We now have Pope John Paul. Next we will have Pope John Paul George. But I don’t know what we will have after Pope John Paul George Ringo… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/15 "2003-09-05T12:16:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tomndebb \* > \*\* > > The earliest references to popes taking new names that I have found occurred in the tenth century (at a time, ironically, when there was a period of corruption that was only exceeded by the later Renaissance popes). \*\* The first pope to change his name appears to be John II, in the 6th century, who had as his birth name Mercury. But it wasn’t a common practice after then. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/16 "2003-09-05T13:38:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Obsidian Flutterby \* > \*\*As I recall it is common to take the name of a saint as your ‘Catholic’ name. Often you are already given the name of a saint as a middle name and either reaffirm it at first confession or pick another one (making it so you have 2 middle names instead of just one) > > Could be wrong though as I never did get so far as to take confession… > \*\* Hmm…I don’t remember that. During confirmation we had to pick another name (after a saint) and add it to our middle name. The bishop confirming us would ask us the name, who the saint was, and why we picked the name before confirming us with scented oil. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/17 "2003-09-05T14:21:42Z")
Yep, but we kept our birth middle names if we had one to begin with. So my full name would be Carolyn (first name) Marie (after my mom and grandma and since Carolyn wasn’t a saint, gotta have a saint’s name here) Christine (confirmation name but never used) C\_\_\_\_. Now, nuns often took different names when they “married Jesus”, often a saint (or two, and sometimes the second one was male!) with a concept attached-hence Sister Theresa of the Child Jesus, Sister Marie of the Incarnation, etc. but I think this practice is dying out. Most of the nuns I know now go by Sister real-first-name or real-last-name, like a doctor. In fact, a high proportion of them have doctorates or advanced degrees of some kind, esp. those who run hospitals and schools. Although I think if your real-first-name was something totally pagan or modern, like Diana or Jennifer, they’d still like you to choose a new Christian name. I’ve yet to meet a Sister Tiffany or Madison 😉 Now, there is one category of priests who DO still automatically change their names–cardinals. When you become one, your middle name is “abolished” and the word Cardinal becomes your middle name–so it was John Cardinal O’Connor instead of John Michael O’Connor (great guy, met him twice). He was referred to as Cardinal O’Connor or Your Eminence to his face and it’s not like he needed to go to court to change his name or anything, but that’s the custom, and that’s what his obituary and tomb under the altar at St. Patrick’s Cathedral say.\* - Another nice O’Connor fact: he started the process for the canonization of Pierre Toussaint, a New York ex-slave who bought his freedom, started some religious orders and schools for blacks, and died in 1853: [http://www.bcimall.org/calendar/franuniv/pierre\_toussaint.htm](http://www.bcimall.org/calendar/franuniv/pierre_toussaint.htm) “The cause for his canonization was begun in 1989 by Cardinal John O’Connor of New York. As a means of highlighting the esteem in which the Cardinal holds the saintly Haitian, his remains were exhumed in 1990, and moved to the crypt beneath the high altar of St. Patrick’s Cathedral. This made him the first person other than an archbishop to be entombed there.” And when O’Connor died in 2000, he was buried there too, as all New York cardinals who die in office have been–but he insisted on having his crypt _beneath_ Toussaint’s. \ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/18 "2003-09-05T14:53:52Z")
Bill Gates is sad to hear this… he had his heart set on making a donation to the next Pope, Microsoft I. ---
**Author:** ![Gotterfunken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/58956e/32.png) [@Gotterfunken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gotterfunken)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/19 "2003-09-05T14:55:36Z")
I think **Obsidian Flutterby** is thinking of the confirmation name. And I can affirm **Mehitabel** ’s observation that you can use your birth middle name _if_ it is a saint’s name. My sisters did this (e.g., “Elizabeth”). I, on the other hand, took “Paul” as my confirmation name since our priest wasn’t sure if there was a St. “Carlisle.” I’ve always thought of the pope’s naming process as being similar to choosing a confirmation name. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/20 "2003-09-05T16:32:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MalFrog \* > \*\*We had Pope John. > > We now have Pope John Paul. > > Next we will have Pope John Paul George. > > But I don’t know what we will have after Pope John Paul George Ringo… \*\* Well, this obviously ties into the tradition of no Pope taking the name of the first Pope. After all, **Pete** was **Best**! 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670.md?page=2)