# How do they name the Popes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 5, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670 "2003-09-05T05:14:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/21 "2003-09-05T16:45:18Z")
Wasn’t there a pope who cornered one of his administrative types shortly after election and told him, “Hey, here’s the name I’m going to go by. What number will it have? Oh, and I’m telling the faithful in ten minutes.” So the admin type gave him a number and it was the wrong one. Danged clerical errors. {The above pun brought to you because it’s not too obscure. For those without a humor detector, it’s also a joke.} ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/22 "2003-09-05T16:48:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schnitte \* > \*\*but choosing two names instead of one surely must have upset some people. \*\* Such as. . . who? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/23 "2003-09-05T16:54:07Z")
**Schnitte** , Elizabeth’s father’s first name was Albert, like his grandfather, who was King Edward VII. He took the name George VI. Actually, Queen Victoria very much wanted her son, Edward VII, to use his first name, Albert, or at least, Albert Edward, in honor of her husband. He chose not to. ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/24 "2003-09-05T18:07:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*Such as. . . who? \*\* I don’t know… maybe John Paul II? I mean, really, he didn’t have much choice for a name after John Paul I only stuck around for a month. (I would think not taking the name John Paul II would have cheezed off more people than John Paul I taking two names.) And as a side comment on the “Beatles” theme, I remember a “news” headline in a National Lampoon magazine from that era that read something like “John Paul elected Pope, George Ringo disappointed.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/25 "2003-09-05T18:46:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Guinastasia \* > \*\ ***Schnitte** , Elizabeth’s father’s first name was Albert, like his grandfather, who was King Edward VII. He took the name George VI. > \*\* Yepp. That’s what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/26 "2003-09-05T20:22:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ellis Dee \* > \*\*Was the book _Galileo’s Daughter_, by chance? I read that a while back, and just may be mixing it up with the copious amounts of TLC/Discovery/History Channel I used to watch before they went to hell. (And I got digital cable. Go Tech TV!) \*\* It was indeed. Good catch! ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/27 "2003-09-05T22:33:03Z")
There are no Canon Laws that speak to what name the Pope can or can not take. It is a principal of law in general, and also of Canon Law, that ‘that which is not prohibited is allowed.’ Therefore, the Pope can take any name he damned well pleases. For even if there was a law on the books regulating the names of the Pope, the new Pope, by virtue of being Pope, can freely change the law – he is, after all, the chief (and sole) legislator of the Church. Remember, JPI (and JPII) took two names, which was not traditional. So who’s to stop them? (OK, so they killed JPI, but they got used to it by JPII’s time.) > [@](#): > > 1. When the election has canonically taken place, the junior Cardinal Deacon summons into the hall of election the Secretary of the College of Cardinals and the Master of Papal Liturgical Celebrations. The Cardinal Dean, or the Cardinal who is first in order and seniority, in the name of the whole College of electors, then asks the consent of the one elected in the following words: Do you accept your canonical election as Supreme Pontiff? And, as soon as he has received the consent, he asks him: By what name do you wish to be called? Then the Master of Papal Liturgical Celebrations, acting as notary and having as witnesses two Masters of Ceremonies, who are to be summoned at that moment, draws up a document certifying acceptance by the new Pope and the name taken by him. - [UNIVERSI DOMINICI GREGIS](http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_jp-ii_apc_22021996_universi-dominici-gregis_en.html) So, a new Pope can take Peter (presumably, Peter II) if he wants. He can keep his own name, too. Now, WRT baptismal and confirmation names: In the 1917 Code of Canon Law, people were made to take ‘Christian names’ (presumably, the names of Saints). In the new Code (1983), the only restriction is that one can not use as a baptismal or confirmation name a name that is ‘contrary to the faith.’ So, if you want your child baptized ‘Crystal,’ that’s OK. If you want to take, ‘Summer’ as your confirmation name, that’s OK. If you want to take ‘Satan,’ ‘Hatred,’ or ‘Anti-Pope’ as your name, that’s right out. Be aware that there are many priests, sisters, and religious ed. directors who are still insisting on saints’ names. Take 'em to ecclesiastical court, they can’t force that rule on anyone anymore. ## Peace. My name shall be: “Incontentia Buttocks” ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/28 "2003-09-06T00:10:39Z")
That’s what I meant **Skopo** … I know my Mom’s confirmation name is Theresa, which is also her ‘birth name’. I think she told me that when I was considering taking confession, but I never did do that. As you also said, that’s what I thought of when a Pope picks his name. It seems fairly similar. **moriah** I think that though a Pope might choose Peter as his name it just hasn’t been done simply because the first pope was Peter. Sort of a respect thing, and maybe because they don’t want to be placing themselves on the same level as him because of the whole ‘founding father’ attitude. I don’t see how anyone would really be _offended_ by it nowadays though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/29 "2003-09-06T00:51:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Walloon \* > \*\*Such as. . . who? \*\* The immensely powerful one-name lobby (including many luminaries such as Charo, Cher, and Madonna) was incredibly upset. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/30 "2003-09-06T03:01:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by moriah \* > **Now, WRT baptismal and confirmation names: In the 1917 Code of Canon Law, people were made to take ‘Christian names’ (presumably, the names of Saints).** This fact affected my father, who was born into a Catholic family in 1934. His mother wanted to name him Ralph, but was told that since there was no St. Ralph, she’d have to pick another name. So he was baptized Lawrence, with Ralph as his middle name. When his sister (born in 1941) came along, she was able to be baptized “Karen” because that name is a form of “Catherine”. Sharon, the baby of the family (though she turned 55 about a month ago), got her name approved because there are Biblical references to the rose of Sharon. ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/31 "2003-09-06T03:51:42Z")
If Peter’s out at a pope’s name, how 'bout Jesus? How 'bout if it’s pronounced “Hey Zeus”? :D:D:D ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/32 "2003-09-06T06:23:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > \*\*The first pope to change his name appears to be John II, in the 6th century, who had as his birth name Mercury. But it wasn’t a common practice after then. \*\* Just a WAG, but maybe the reason for the change in that case was that “Mercury” was the name of a pagan god? It may have been contrary to the sensibilities of the time to have a pope with such an obviously pagan name? ---
**Author:** ![Already\_in\_Use](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Already\_in\_Use](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Already_in_Use)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/33 "2003-09-06T07:39:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MalFrog \* > \*\*We had Pope John. > > We now have Pope John Paul. > > Next we will have Pope John Paul George. > > But I don’t know what we will have after Pope John Paul George Ringo… \*\* Pope Murray the K. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/34 "2003-09-06T15:52:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Schnitte \* > \*\*Yepp. That’s what I said. \*\* No, you said _Arthur_. Sorry, I should have been more clear. 😉 (I tend to be very anal about Royalty in history…don’t mind me) ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/35 "2003-09-06T17:37:47Z")
Hell, yes! I swear I wanted to write “Albert.” No really. Cannot explain why I wrote “Arthur” 😕 ---
**Author:** ![brianmelendez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/65b543/32.png) [@brianmelendez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brianmelendez)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/36 "2003-09-06T20:14:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Mehitabel \* > **Now, there is one category of priests who DO still automatically change their names–cardinals. When you become one, your middle name is “abolished” and the word Cardinal becomes your middle name–so it was John Cardinal O’Connor instead of John Michael O’Connor (great guy, met him twice). He was referred to as Cardinal O’Connor or Your Eminence to his face and it’s not like he needed to go to court to change his name or anything, but that’s the custom, and that’s what his obituary and tomb under the altar at St. Patrick’s Cathedral say.**_ The practice of referring to a cardinal as [first name] Cardinal [surname] is an editorial convention that has nothing to do with the cardinal’s actual name. It follows the practice of referring to British nobles as [first name], Lord [title of peerage], as in Alfred, Lord Tennyson. When Alfred Tennyson was made a baron in 1883, and chose “Tennyson” as his barony’s title, his name was still Alfred Tennyson, but he was thereafter referred to by his title “Alfred, Lord Tennyson” rather than his name. When John Michael O’Connor was made a cardinal, his name didn’t change, but he was thereafter referred to by his title in the same manner. His middle name no more became “Cardinal” than George Bush’s first name became “President” when he took office. About a decade ago, _The New York Times_ and several other newspapers abandoned the ancient style of referring to cardinals as “[first name] Cardinal [surname],” and began using the more modern style “Cardinal [surname].” Thus the recent coverage of the Boston archdiocese referred to “Cardinal Law” rather than to “Bernard Cardinal Law.” His middle name was and is Francis, both before and after his resignation. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/37 "2003-09-06T23:15:58Z")
After Pope John Paul George Ringo, the only logical name is Pope **Elvis** ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/38 "2003-09-07T02:11:28Z")
I coulda sworn they just take a Pole. ---
**Author:** ![Sigene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sigene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigene)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/39 "2003-09-07T02:13:31Z")
No Wait. That’s how they elect the guy… never mind. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670/40 "2003-09-07T04:53:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sigene \* > \*\*I coulda sworn they just take a Pole. \*\* But it’s usually an Italian. John Paul II was the first Pole taken. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-name-the-popes/199670.md?page=3)