# How do they prevent border crossings on the Great Lakes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 17, 2009, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617 "2009-12-17T07:27:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/21 "2009-12-17T16:56:41Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > The border town library of St. Albans, Vermont used to serve both U.S. and Canadian citizens. U.S. citizens used the front door and Canadians the back door and people were expected to leave through the same door they came in to go back home but I don’t think that is allowed anymore. > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > St Albans is ten miles south of the border so there’s no border line in the town itself. **Shagnasty** is probably talking about the [Haskell Free Library and Opera House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House), which straddles the border between Stanstead, Quebec and Derby Line, Vermont. As far as I’m aware, it’s still open, but when I went over there I couldn’t visit as it was Sunday. I’ve heard that there are border guards inside the library but I’m not sure users have to exit through the same door they entered. It probably wouldn’t make that much sense. After all, the building is just next to an uninspected border-crossing street. The street is closed with cement blocks, but for pedestrians or cyclists it’s extremely easy to cross, which I assume is illegal in theory. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/22 "2009-12-17T16:57:37Z")
This is what I was told by someone who ran a Canadian tour boat on the Lakes: when he got over to the American side, everyone had to stay in the boat except the master of the vessel. The master could get out, but only to go to contact customs authorities (use the dockside phone to call the harbourmaster’s office, for example). Presumably, he was allowed to secure the boat to the dock. 🙂 Customs would come to check the ID of the others on the boat, then they could cone ashore. Mind you, this was with tour groups, and pre-9/11, so it’s probably different now. ---
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/23 "2009-12-17T16:59:05Z")
It’s the same kind of deal where the border goes through the wilderness areas in WA, ID and MT. There’s just a couple of yard wide clear cut and an obelisk every few miles, but it’s pretty much honor system that you’ll check in with customs if you’re going on an international backpack. I heard a thing on NPR a few years ago that was about the border patrol’s horseback patrols that patrols these sections of the border and at one point they mentioned that they’ve never actually caught anyone doing anything (but they like to think they’re a deterrent). ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/24 "2009-12-17T17:00:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I wish to thank you, **EH** , for drawing my attention to the wonderfully-named [Pig War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War). I don’t know why these things aren’t taught in school. You’re welcome. Sometimes the more obscure (even silly) wars are the most interesting: > **[War of Jenkins' Ear](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_of_Jenkin%27s_Ear)** > > The War of Jenkins' Ear\[a\] was fought between Great Britain and Spain from 1739 to 1748. Most of the fighting took place in New Granada and the Caribbean Sea, with major operations over by 1742. It is considered a related conflict of the 1740 to 1748 War of the Austrian Succession. > The name derives from Robert Jenkins, a British sea captain whose ear was allegedly severed in April 1731 by Spanish coast guards searching his ship for contraband. In 1738, opposition politicians in the British Pa... > **[Football War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_war)** > > The Football War (Spanish: Guerra del fútbol), also known as the Soccer War or the 100 Hour War, was a brief military conflict fought between El Salvador and Honduras in 1969. Existing tensions between the two countries coincided with rioting during a 1970 FIFA World Cup qualifier. The war began on 14 July 1969 when the Salvadoran military launched an attack against Honduras. The Organization of American States (OAS) negotiated a cease-fire on the night of 18 July, hence its nickname. Salvador ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/25 "2009-12-17T17:06:56Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > There is alot of smuggling of liquor, cigarettes, and drugs that occurs between Canada and the US … slight hijack…Why? Liquor and cigarettes are both legal in Canada, so why not import them through legal channels? In the opposite vein, drugs are illegal in both countries so why would our shared border be a hotspot for drugs? It’s not like I can go to Toronto and buy a suitcase full of cocaine in a grocery store and try to bring it home.. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/26 "2009-12-17T17:09:17Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > slight hijack…Why? Liquor and cigarettes are both legal in Canada, so why not import them through legal channels? taxes > [@](#): > > In the opposite vein, drugs are illegal in both countries so why would our shared border be a hotspot for drugs? It’s not like I can go to Toronto and buy a suitcase full of cocaine in a grocery store and try to bring it home.. varying degrees of enforcement. pot isn’t such a big deal in Canada also, may be easier for non north-american drug producers to smuggle stuff in through canada first (as most attention is paid on preventing the inflow from the carribean and mexico) and then into the US ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/27 "2009-12-17T17:14:01Z")
Point Roberts, Washington is the funniest one of them all. It sits at the end of a peninsula. 3 of the 4 borders are water. the fourth is canada. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point\_Roberts,\_Washington](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_Roberts,_Washington) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/28 "2009-12-17T17:28:27Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > **Shagnasty** is probably talking about the [Haskell Free Library and Opera House](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskell_Free_Library_and_Opera_House), which straddles the border between Stanstead, Quebec and Derby Line, Vermont. As far as I’m aware, it’s still open, but when I went over there I couldn’t visit as it was Sunday. I’ve heard that there are border guards inside the library but I’m not sure users have to exit through the same door they entered. It probably wouldn’t make that much sense. After all, the building is just next to an uninspected border-crossing street. The street is closed with cement blocks, but for pedestrians or cyclists it’s extremely easy to cross, which I assume is illegal in theory. That must be it. It has been years since I read about it. I think Canadians are just about the scariest group of people imaginable. They look just just like and sound almost like regular people especially in the border areas and no one can really tell. Talk about stealth superpowers. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/29 "2009-12-17T17:34:41Z")
From 50 years living about 30 miles from the St. Lawrmce River where it is flowing ‘flat water’ and the international boundary, the policy, at least before 2001, was one of _de minimis non curat lex_. The Border Patrol and their Canadian counterparts were quick to act on any suspected smuggling, e.g., of drugs or high-value merchandise, but if a boater chose to eat, fuel, or even shop across the border from where he lived or was vacationing, it was not seen as a criminal issue. It’s possible things have changed now with the terrorism issue and tightening of border security. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/30 "2009-12-17T17:39:48Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > slight hijack…Why? Liquor and cigarettes are both legal in Canada, so why not import them through legal channels? Like **Rumor\_Watkins** says, taxes. Federal and provincial excise and sales taxes on alcohol and tobacco are much higher in Canada than in the US. So smugglers buy cheaply in the US and sell a little less cheaply in Canada. They make a profit and the Canadian consumer who buys the smuggled goods still gets a better deal than he or she would if the goods were bought legally in Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/31 "2009-12-17T18:02:31Z")
Yep, I quit smoking 4 years ago but instead of paying $65-80 dollars for a carton of 200 cigarettes, if you knew the right people you could get the same brand for $25-35 per carton. Duty and Tax free! It’s a multimillion dollar smuggling industry, and liquor is about the same. Canada also didn’t declare “war” on drugs, drug related sentences are less severe and marijuana is decriminalized so it may be easier to cultivate and distribute. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/32 "2009-12-17T18:32:47Z")
Marijuana is not decriminalized in Canada - the laws that make it illegal are still in effect despite a few efforts to legalize possession of small amounts (less than 15g, I think). It is illegal to grow and sell (except for medical marijuana providers), and although personal consumption of it is tolerated, a user can still be prosecuted for smoking weed. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/33 "2009-12-17T18:45:28Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Marijuana is not decriminalized in Canada - the laws that make it illegal are still in effect despite a few efforts to legalize possession of small amounts (less than 15g, I think). It is illegal to grow and sell (except for medical marijuana providers), and although personal consumption of it is tolerated, a user can still be prosecuted for smoking weed. Agreed. The penalties for possession for stated small amounts have been decreased, but other than that, possession remains a criminal matter and provides for a criminal record upon conviction. If marijuana was indeed decriminalized, it would have the same effect as a speeding ticket. But it doesn’t–it is still criminalized. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/34 "2009-12-17T18:51:30Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > Marijuana is not decriminalized in Canada - the laws that make it illegal are still in effect despite a few efforts to legalize possession of small amounts (less than 15g, I think). It is illegal to grow and sell (except for medical marijuana providers), and although personal consumption of it is tolerated, a user can still be prosecuted for smoking weed. Sorry, I had to type fast for the edit window, I over-generalized and omitted that it pertains to possession. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617/35 "2009-12-17T18:56:55Z")
Americans cross the border to buy cheaper drugs every day. In the summer Lake Erie and the Detroit river has boats every where. Once in a while a boat is pulled over but they can not come close to checking the majority. It is easy to smuggle. Canadian beer has a bigger alcoholic content than American beer. They also have better beers. So a lot of alcohol is taken over the border. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-they-prevent-border-crossings-on-the-great-lakes/521617.md?page=1)