# How do topless models really feel? Visual suggestions within (NSFW; mod cleared) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 30, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340 "2012-09-30T23:32:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/61 "2012-10-02T03:56:35Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > [Here is a SFW head](http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3205/progression.png) image I just spent five minutes of my valuable time creating to demonstrate the fake smiley thing. > > If you look at just the righter-most image the smile looks real. > > If you look at the progression it’s kinda fake. > > But if you rotate the thing in real time it’s super obviously fake. Rotate it in “real time”? How did you determine the speed of rotation? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/62 "2012-10-02T05:17:34Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > To be clear the most interesting thing about this to me is the way that a smile looks real if you look at one image of it, but when you see the images that show how it has been formed you can see how fake it is. No one else seems to have picked this up yet, dunno why. [Gestalt psychology](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_psychology). ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/63 "2012-10-02T06:07:51Z")
> [@SCSimmons](#): > > The point they’re trying to make is that nobody in the universe has ever maintained a real smile through the course of a photoshoot like this. Experienced, professional models are better at showing convincing smiles through more of a long shoot, but they’re actually just as fake. Real smiles happen when you’re experiencing something amusing or enjoyable–what these models think of the ultimate consumers of these photographs really doesn’t enter into it, because the process of making this product isn’t itself enjoyable. I don’t smile all day while I’m working, but that’s not because I have contempt or disrespect for my company’s customers. I think we do important and valuable work–but it’s still just a job, and it’s rarely an entertaining one. Smile? There have been a lot of shots of models in the Times (all clothed) and smiling seems out of style. Most of them look like they’re sucking on a lemon. The women in the link are positively beaming compared to them. In any case we don’t know that the photographer didn’t tell them to change their expressions so their face wouldn’t freeze or something. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/64 "2012-10-02T06:12:52Z")
Dude, I don’t know what your problem is. Those women are all totally into me! ---
**Author:** ![TonySinclair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/49beb7/32.png) [@TonySinclair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TonySinclair)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/65 "2012-10-02T06:29:10Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I have moderator permission for this. I take back everything I’ve ever said about the moderators. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/66 "2012-10-02T06:45:49Z")
I stand by my initial impression of personal projection on the part of the OP. This is some quacky shit. ---
**Author:** ![firstname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7ab992/32.png) [@firstname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/firstname)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/67 "2012-10-02T07:32:16Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > I think they are just standing on a rotating platform and addressing the camera as it shows up in their field of vision. This whole thread solved by post 10. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/68 "2012-10-02T08:15:29Z")
The expressions don’t bug me; the thing that gets me is the pure, naked (hah!) artificiality of the whole process. Between the lack of background and the flat lighting, which I realize is needed for this to work technically, I’m rather glad there’s at least some change of expression on the models’ faces as one rotates through the photos. otherwise the women would look even more robotic, and more like a consumer durable, than they already do. It appears no one has commented that multiple images are available for each of the models; at least one I saw had a couple dozen images to choose from. I guess because of the limitations of the process, they were all roughly the same pose, however, with just small variations in hairdo and itsy-bitsy costume. While I don’t quite understand wherer the OP was coming from, and the women certainly seem, er, fit, I find the technique weird and off-putting. That said, I could see some enterprising conceptual artist using the same process to make montages of, say, people’s grandmothers (fully clothed, please). ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/69 "2012-10-02T13:13:31Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > It’s not that no one else has picked it up, it’s that everyone else expects it. Yeah, I wished that I had though of some way of telling him this. Sort of like saying that Santa isn’t real or something. I can only guess that the OP has lived a pretty sheltered life if he’s never been exposed to a “backstage” where people put on and take off their performance face. Hell, I used to have the sales assistants practice smiling before they’d pick up the phones. Do you really think people are that bubbly at 8:00 am? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/70 "2012-10-02T13:55:36Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > These tend towards the former but you cannot tell at an instinctive level until you see them form. That may be somewhat true, but “you cannot tell at an instinctive level until you se e them form” isn’t quite right.[You can test your fake smile skills here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/). Fake and real smiles are evident in still photos, and you don’t have to watch the process unfolding. Some people are much better than others in spotting them. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/71 "2012-10-02T14:05:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That may be somewhat true, but “you cannot tell at an instinctive level until you se e them form” isn’t quite right.[You can test your fake smile skills here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/). Fake and real smiles are evident in still photos, and you don’t have to watch the process unfolding. Some people are much better than others in spotting them. I wouldn’t have considered myself good at this, but I got 16 out of 20 by looking at the eyes. The explanation at the end provided more detail, but clearly the people whose eyes didn’t change at all were faking it. ---
**Author:** ![Chicagojeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@Chicagojeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicagojeff)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/72 "2012-10-02T15:22:57Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Keep going back, until they remember. Girls who work in strip clubs love little reminders. All the other strippers will think it’s ‘cute’ and they will all admire you for your persistence! Better yet. go out at closing time and sit on the hood of your car.. then refuse to leave when the bouncer tell you too.. Then you and I can have a conversation about how Cherry (who’s always on deck) was giving you the eye. and wants to meet up at waffle house for a bite.. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/73 "2012-10-02T21:47:30Z")
> [@Simple\_Linctus](#): > > I don’t have any personal issues with women\*. > > To be clear the most interesting thing about this to me is the way that a smile looks real if you look at one image of it, but when you see the images that show how it has been formed you can see how fake it is. No one else seems to have picked this up yet, dunno why. > > \*Excpet that visually I like younger ones but otherwise prefer older ones. I don’t think this counts as an issue though. Actually, faking a smile is something humans are amazingly good at spotting and there are several examples online of comparisons. There are certain facial muscles, especially around the cheeks and eyes that can’t be controlled, hardly at all, voluntarily. Check these comparisons out; go ahead and guess which one is real (ignoring any captions that might be present). I think you’ll find how incredibly easy they are to spot. Then after, go around your place and look at any posed family portraits, senior photos, wedding pictures or porn you might happen to have around you, and you’ll see the fake smiles forever: [Example 1](http://www.socialanxietycures.org/artwork/Fake-vs-Real-Smile.png) [Example 2](http://richardneufelddds.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/dental-real-and-fake-smiles.jpg) [Example 3](http://psychologeristic.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/fake-vs-real-smile.jpg) [Example 4](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/24/article-0-02686ED90000044D-970_468x268.jpg) [Example 5](http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/l/Lion%20v%20Tiger.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/74 "2012-10-03T00:50:18Z")
I’m actually having difficulty with #4. Is the one on the right the real one? I keep going back and forth on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/75 "2012-10-03T01:54:35Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > Actually, faking a smile is something humans are amazingly good at spotting and there are several examples online of comparisons. There are certain facial muscles, especially around the cheeks and eyes that can’t be controlled, hardly at all, voluntarily. > > Check these comparisons out; go ahead and guess which one is real (ignoring any captions that might be present). I think you’ll find how incredibly easy they are to spot. > > Then after, go around your place and look at any posed family portraits, senior photos, wedding pictures or porn you might happen to have around you, and you’ll see the fake smiles forever: > > [Example 1](http://www.socialanxietycures.org/artwork/Fake-vs-Real-Smile.png) > > [Example 2](http://richardneufelddds.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/dental-real-and-fake-smiles.jpg) > > [Example 3](http://psychologeristic.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/fake-vs-real-smile.jpg) > > [Example 4](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2011/02/24/article-0-02686ED90000044D-970_468x268.jpg) > > [Example 5](http://imagebank.ipcmedia.com/imageBank/l/Lion%20v%20Tiger.jpg) Actually, I got 20/20 on this: > [@pulykamell](#): > > That may be somewhat true, but “you cannot tell at an instinctive level until you se e them form” isn’t quite right.[You can test your fake smile skills here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/). Fake and real smiles are evident in still photos, and you don’t have to watch the process unfolding. Some people are much better than others in spotting them. But one thing is that if you ain’t looking out for a fake smile you are much less likely to notice - I don’t doubt I could catch almost all fake smiles were I actually spending my time looking for them (and if I were I would of course be totally cutting down on the other stuff I do. Similar logic applies to things like lies btw; I reckon I can catch liars if I’m LOOKING for them really fooking hard above anything else, but in normal conversation I may as well flip a coin). Honestly, seeing the thing formed makes a big difference, at least for me. (p.s. kudos for #5 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/76 "2012-10-03T01:56:51Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m actually having difficulty with #4. Is the one on the right the real one? I keep going back and forth on that one. You’re lion. But in case you’re not, the real smile is on the left, tiger. ---
**Author:** ![Simple\_Linctus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Simple\_Linctus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simple_Linctus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/77 "2012-10-03T01:59:09Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m actually having difficulty with #4. Is the one on the right the real one? I keep going back and forth on that one. wtf? why? it’s 99% the one on the left, and I only allow the 1% in case I am somehow wrong. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/78 "2012-10-03T02:12:25Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > You’re lion. > > But in case you’re not, the real smile is on the left, tiger. Like I said, I was going back-and-forth on that one. Originally, I thought it was the one on the left, then I thought the one on the left was trying too hard. To me, they both look equally natural, with the one on the right being kind of a moment before the full smile is formed. (The other ones are all left side, too, right? If not, then I really suck at this.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/79 "2012-10-03T02:15:27Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That may be somewhat true, but “you cannot tell at an instinctive level until you se e them form” isn’t quite right.[You can test your fake smile skills here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/mind/surveys/smiles/). Fake and real smiles are evident in still photos, and you don’t have to watch the process unfolding. Some people are much better than others in spotting them. Shit, this is not what I thought I was linking to. I just googled this and assumed it was the still photograph version of the same test I saw somewhere before. Ugh. My post above makes no sense with the link I gave. Well, I got 16/20 on that test, so I guess I’m not _that_ bad. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340/80 "2012-10-04T21:36:20Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Yeah, I wished that I had though of some way of telling him this. Sort of like saying that Santa isn’t real or something. > > I can only guess that the OP has lived a pretty sheltered life if he’s never been exposed to a “backstage” where people put on and take off their performance face. > > Hell, I used to have the sales assistants practice smiling before they’d pick up the phones. Do you really think people are that bubbly at 8:00 am? Or perhaps Dopers like to think everyone else is stupid. Why in the world do you guys think he doesn’t know this is normal? The fact remains that it’s unprofessional and makes it look like shit. The entire point of a 360 is that you’re supposed be capturing a single moment in time. They totally fucked that up, and you get a glimpse of what most people know probably happens but never get to see. And I blame everyone involved. I could see not blaming the model if it were slightly different, but she completely drops the smile when she’s facing away. And, yes, while that’s understandable that you couldn’t keep it up forever, why in the world didn’t the photographer or director notice? And sure as hell hope this is just what the editor had to work with. I mean, the body is so perfectly matched up, and yet the face is so far off. It’s weird. And it does break the suspension of disbelief that models are supposed to be happy to do their work. Do you respond to people saying an actor lost character as being stupid not to know how hard acting is? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-topless-models-really-feel-visual-suggestions-within-nsfw-mod-cleared/636340.md?page=5)