# How do ultra-orthodox Jewish men get those perfect side curls? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 27, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257 "2016-04-27T15:37:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waltzes_with_Cacti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/1 "2016-04-27T15:37:35Z")
You probably know the curls I mean, but here’s a pic: [http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e20134889f2908970c-popup](http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b71f69e20134889f2908970c-popup) Some ultra orthodox men wear side curls that are lank and loose, but many have tight, perfectly cylindrical locks. How do the wearers get their hair to form such perfect cylinders? Do they wear curlers to bed? Roll their hair up with rags, as Shirley Temple was said to do? Do they apply hairspray and setting gel? Do the hair products have to be kosher? What happens when an orthodox man gets old and bald and doesn’t have enough hair left to form the curls? Does he bobby pin fake ones on? ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/2 "2016-04-27T17:04:55Z")
The only thing I can add: They are called “[payess.](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/payess)” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/3 "2016-04-27T17:40:59Z")
“Payot” seems to be another common version of the term nowadays. [Wiki sez:](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payot#Styles) > [@](#): > > The lengths and maintenance of the payot vary noticeably among Jewish groups: > > - The Belz Hasidim are careful to never trim their payot; rather, they wrap their sidelocks around their ears as many times as necessary. > - Many Breslov Hasidim wear long twisted locks as did their Rabbi, Nachman of Breslov. However, others wear their payot in different styles in line with the teaching of Rabbi Nachman that his followers should not have a uniform garb. > - The Chabad-Lubavitch Hasidim’s payot are not evident, but they exist. So long as there is hair around the ear and behind it that can be plucked out, that is considered payot. > - Some Gerer Hasidim raise their sidelocks from the temples and tuck them under their yarmulke. Others, especially in Israel, let them hang down. > - The Skver Hasidim twist their sidelocks into a tight coil, and leave them protruding in front of the ear. > - Some traditional Yemenite Jews still wear distinctive long and thin twisted locks, often reaching to the upper arm. The actual area where the hair grows and where the ringlet begins is neat and tidy. > - Most other Hasidic groups wear their payot down and curled. > > The Lithuanian Jews were less influenced by Kabbalistic practises, but still retain sidelocks to a degree, in a small number of variant styles: > > - Lithuanian Jews often cut their sidelocks, but leave a bunch of strands uncut, and place them behind the ear; this style is most commonly found among yeshiva students, who sometimes remove the uncut strands when they have grown sideburns. > - The Brisk movement’s members brush their hair straight down, usually so that it reaches to the ear lobe; sometimes, some of the sidelock is not cut, and is curled back behind the ear. An [article in _Kempt_ magazine:](http://www.getkempt.com/article/grooming-for-god-the-payos) > [@](#): > > Thus, Leviticus 19:27: “You shall not round off the _pe’ah_ [sides, corners] of your head.” > > But how do they get those awesome curls? > > According to OHR’s Ask the Rabbi , “A man shouldn’t use curlers. Rather, stick the forefinger in between the hair and the forehead and push it towards the roots of the payos. Then, curl the rest of the hair around your other forefinger in the down direction. Hold it that way for a moment, and then gently remove the forefinger without messing up the curl. Do this once each weekday morning and hopefully it will start curling naturally by itself.” It’s also worth noting that many/most ethnic Jews have some curl in their hair naturally; it’s easier to get ringlets in hair with natural curl than in totally straight hair. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/4 "2016-04-27T17:49:08Z")
> [@Waltzes with Cacti](#): > > What happens when an orthodox man gets old and bald and doesn’t have enough hair left to form the curls? Does he bobby pin fake ones on? IANARabbi or specialist in Jewish tonsorial regulations, but AFAIK the payot, like the beard, are merely the result of the prohibition against shaving or cutting facial hair. If a man is naturally devoid of beard or sidelocks, due to age-related hair loss or whatever other reason, AFAIK he is not required to wear false ones. ---
**Author:** ![Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90ced4/32.png) [@Waltzes\_with\_Cacti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waltzes_with_Cacti)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/5 "2016-04-27T21:07:59Z")
**Kimstu** and **burpo the wonder mutt** , thank you both very much. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/6 "2016-04-28T01:46:41Z")
[quote=“burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt, post:2, topic:753257”] … They are called "[payess.](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/payess) > [@Kimstu](#): > The “…ot” in Standard Hebrew, based on Sephardic, has always been pronounced “…ess” by Ashkenazic Jews, who are the vast majority of ultra-Orthodox in the United States. “Shabbos”/“Shabbat,” etc. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/7 "2016-04-28T01:58:48Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > IANARabbi or specialist in Jewish tonsorial regulations, but AFAIK the payot, like the beard, are merely the result of the prohibition against shaving or cutting facial hair. If a man is naturally devoid of beard or sidelocks, due to age-related hair loss or whatever other reason, AFAIK he is not required to wear false ones. Addendum regarding peyot and “ultra-Orthodox,” super-duper curls, etc: the length and obviousness of the curls is a cultural thing. Insofar as not shaving your sideburns is a _mitzvah_ a commandment, every Orthodox Jew, even mild-mannered Murray down the hall who doesn’t wear a yarmulke (_not_ a mitzvah) is, religiously speaking, fulfilling the same mitzvah (presuming and assuming he’s faithful), assured by leaving a bit when he shaves or reminding his barber. The hoopty-doopty-gotta-represent payes you see is culture; in this case, I can think of two related Talmudic strands: 1) if you love a mitzvah, go all out, and 2)and something which itself is a _mitzvah_, to make your outward appearance distinctive from non-Jews. So mild-mannered Murray who you never even knew or cared was a Jew has some 'splainin to do on that one. And then there’s the other 611 mitzvot. ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/8 "2016-04-28T02:16:49Z")
**Leo** , you’re a miracle man! I’ve been debating myself all afternoon about opening up that can of worms (the pronunciation of payess/payot), and here you come and not only ask the question for us, but answer it, too! Thanks! You are a true mensch! (Mensch is an OK word, isn’t it?) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jewish-men-get-those-perfect-side-curls/753257/9 "2016-04-28T02:55:04Z")
I’m a Jewish guy with long hair (not even close to Orthodox) and my hair looks like that naturally.