# How do ultra-orthodox Jews handle the whole "menstruation women" prohibitions?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640
**Category:** In My Humble Opinion
**Created:** [September 22, 2010, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640 "2010-09-22T14:05:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/41 "2010-09-23T21:12:26Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> If a guy shakes everybody else’s hand but not mine, I’m not going to think, “What a nice non-rapist.”
Uh, sorry, but I always put men in the “rapist” or “nice non-rapist” category. SOMETHING IS CLEARLY WRONG WITH YOU IF YOU DON’T.
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> > [@fluiddruid](#):
> >
> > I’ve never heard this, and if in a business setting, I would be offended if men were offered a handshake, but I wasn’t. I’d rather be treated as an equal, etiquette manual be damned.
>
> I don’t think offering a hand to a woman is about treating her as an equal, its about forcing her to submit to being touched. It’s a useful character test actually. I’ve dealt with some less than conventional individuals in my life including smugglers and coyotes and the like. **One thing I’ve noticed rumors of rapes and sexual violence always surface about the ones that stick out their hands automatically to women versus the men who wait for a women to offer contact**.
(bolding mine)
Okay now I’m DEFINITELY being wooshed. No question about that. Either that or Mr. Zealot over here lives up to and waaaaaay beyond his username.
If anyone refuses to shake my hand, it’s over. You have lost my respect - but that’s okay. Because you were never going to have any respect for me anyways.
---
### Author:  [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/42 "2010-09-23T21:14:18Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
> >
> > I don’t think offering a hand to a woman is about treating her as an equal, its about forcing her to submit to being touched. It’s a useful character test actually. I’ve dealt with some less than conventional individuals in my life including smugglers and coyotes and the like. One thing I’ve noticed rumors of rapes and sexual violence always surface about the ones that stick out their hands automatically to women versus the men who wait for a women to offer contact.
>
> Oh no, I have to \*submit \*to being \*touched \*by a _man_. Now no one will \*marry \*me because I’m such a \*harlot \*I shook hands at a _business meeting_.
>
> If a guy shakes everybody else’s hand but not mine, I’m not going to think, “What a nice non-rapist.” I’m going to think, “What a sexist douchebarge.”
Hardly his fault though, if he’s been brainwashed by the likes of **ZPGZ**.
---
### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/43 "2010-09-23T21:28:15Z")
> [@lindsaybluth](#):
>
> Either that or Mr. Zealot over here lives up to and waaaaaay beyond his username.
IIRC, \*\*ZPGZ \*\*is female. And has expressed any number of :checks forum: \*interestingly controversial \*opinions on this board.
---
### Author:  [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/44 "2010-09-23T21:37:12Z")
Should I pop some popcorn? Is this about to become another one of those fascinating trainwrecks?
What about the poor businessmen who have to \*submit \*to being \*touched \*by another businessman? Won’t somebody please think of the men?!?
---
### Author:  [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/45 "2010-09-23T21:45:23Z")
No, that’s fine, because everyone knows that men never get raped. Which is why it’s okay for the woman to reach out and shake the man’s hand without being a rapist.
---
### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/46 "2010-09-23T22:04:29Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> No, that’s fine, because everyone knows that men never get raped. Which is why it’s okay for the woman to reach out and shake the man’s hand without being a rapist.
Statistically which gender is more likely to be raped though. In my life I’ve learned many useful clues to human character. The handshake example is one of them. I hope at least some of the men who I’ve encountered who stick their hands out unwelcomed at women are not rapists. However, I have observed this ALL the men I have encountered who were rapist/sexual predators always tried to force women to shake their hands. It’s like that is the first step when they are sizing up potential victims. Likewise all the men I have ever known that respected women and could be trusted withwomen (any women under any circumstances) always waited for a woman to make the first move in any sort of physical contact. They never presumed anything gave them the right to touch a woman other than her permission.
---
### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/47 "2010-09-23T22:09:35Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#):
>
> Should I pop some popcorn? Is this about to become another one of those fascinating trainwrecks?
>
> What about the poor businessmen who have to \*submit \*to being \*touched \*by another businessman? Won’t somebody please think of the men?!?
I have known quite of few Asian and Asian American businessmen who have a negative view of handshaking. Why shouldn’t their right to live according to their standards of acceptable public behavior be respected? Seriously, not getting to touch someone is not going to kill you. Putting your hands on someone’s body without their permission should never be considered okay.
---
### Author:  [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/48 "2010-09-23T22:12:07Z")
- pop \*
- pop \* \* pop \*
- pop \*\* pop \*\* pop \*\* pop \*
---
### Author:  [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/49 "2010-09-23T23:45:02Z")
Offering a handshake is not forcing anyone to be touched without their permission. If you want to refuse to shake my hand, that’s your right. If you think I’m a rapist for offering to shake hands, well, that’s also your right.
And then it’s my right to consider you a whackadoodle.
---
### Author:  [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/50 "2010-09-24T01:02:21Z")
I like to think that I’m doing God’s work by raping every woman who shakes my hand. That’ll teach the sluts.
---
### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/51 "2010-09-24T01:33:28Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> I like to think that I’m doing God’s work by raping every woman who shakes my hand. That’ll teach the sluts.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of men who actually do think like that. I would rather avoid such a person than take my chances with being able to successfully ward them off at a later time. Wouldn’t you?
---
### Author:  [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/52 "2010-09-24T01:34:43Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> > [@AClockworkMelon](#):
> >
> > I like to think that I’m doing God’s work by raping every woman who shakes my hand. That’ll teach the sluts.
>
> Unfortunately, there are plenty of men who actually do think like that. I would rather avoid such a person than take my chances with being able to successfully ward them off at a later time. Wouldn’t you?
So you avoid shaking men’s hands so that they won’t get the wrong idea and rape you? Are you fucking kidding me?
---
### Author:  [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/53 "2010-09-24T01:39:10Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#):
>
> Won’t somebody please think of the men?!?
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> I like to think that I’m doing God’s work by raping every woman who shakes my hand. That’ll teach the sluts.
See? There are rapists IN THIS VERY THREAD. **AClockworkMelon** , I will _not_ shake your hand.
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#):
>
> IIRC, \*\*ZPGZ \*\*is female. And has expressed any number of :checks forum: \*interestingly controversial \*opinions on this board.
Well, that _certainly_ comes as a surprise.
---
### Author:  [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/54 "2010-09-24T13:38:30Z")
I’ll shake AClockworkMelon’s hand. 😉
Seriously, god almighty, I’m rather happy we’ve come to a time that women can shake hands just like men. Please don’t withhold a handshake because I am a frail dainty woman! If a woman is going to live in this world she is going to have to stand up and learn how to gently refuse a handshake if it is part of her religion. And on the contrary, I’ve found men who shake women’s hands without hesitation tend to be more respectful of women, and more inclined to treat them with respect.
I’ll look a man in the eyes and shake his hand firmly any day.
---
### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/55 "2010-09-24T13:49:54Z")
When I was working the front desk, I was told to greet walk-ins by standing, introducing myself and offering my hand. I quickly learned not to do that with men wearing yamakes or in typical Saudi garb. And if anyone refused my hand, I did not make an issue of it.
I once was at a sidewalk sale where a fundamentalist Christian church had set up a table with a man and woman. I was discussing the topic with the man and introduced myself, offering my hand. When he shook it, I said “I thought you followed the Bible, but you didn’t ask me if I was on my period!”
I noticed the woman’s face got brick red, and I thought she was going to die of embarassment. Then I noticed her whole body was shaking with repressed laughter. She had to get up and leave the table.
---
### Author:  [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/56 "2010-09-24T14:00:35Z")
> [@Anaamika](#):
>
> I’ll shake AClockworkMelon’s hand. 😉
>
> Seriously, god almighty, I’m rather happy we’ve come to a time that women can shake hands just like men. Please don’t withhold a handshake because I am a frail dainty woman! If a woman is going to live in this world she is going to have to stand up and learn how to gently refuse a handshake if it is part of her religion. And on the contrary, I’ve found men who shake women’s hands without hesitation tend to be more respectful of women, and more inclined to treat them with respect.
>
> I’ll look a man in the eyes and shake his hand firmly any day.
Amen. It IS true that there is an (outdated) rule of etiquette that men are not supposed to offer their hands to a lady first. But that was a social rule…women are in business now, on equal footing with men, and the rules have evolved accordingly.
Of course, if anyone, male or female, cannot shake hands for whatever reason, it’s their job to politely decline, without making the other person feel as though they had done something wrong. And it’s the offeree’s job to take that in stride, not be offended, and not insist upon it.
---
### Author:  [@Surly\_Chick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surly_Chick)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/57 "2010-09-24T14:23:31Z")
In Afghanistan, the local men would always wait for me to offer my hand first. If I didn’t, they made no attempt to shake hands with me even if they were shaking hands with other people present. I always did offer - I didn’t care if they thought I was a loose woman…
Erm, because I am. 😛
---
### Author:  [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/58 "2010-09-24T15:16:46Z")
> [@AClockworkMelon](#):
>
> > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
> >
> > Unfortunately, there are plenty of men who actually do think like that. I would rather avoid such a person than take my chances with being able to successfully ward them off at a later time. Wouldn’t you?
>
> So you avoid shaking men’s hands so that they won’t get the wrong idea and rape you? Are you fucking kidding me?
No, I don’t shake hands with men because it’s against my personal moral code to touch a man other than a husband or close relative. I have observed however that men who insist on trying to get women to shake their hands often have boundary issues and that it can be the first clue that a man is a sexual predator if he places his own personal need to have his hand touched (why hand touching is so important is completely bizarre to me) over the women’s right to body integrity. Quite honestly why is that such a mystery to you?
---
### Author:  [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/59 "2010-09-24T15:30:16Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> No, I don’t shake hands with men because it’s against my personal moral code to touch a man other than a husband or close relative.
This is fine. No problems here. To each their own, and all that. \*\*Sarahfeena \*\*expressed it perfectly.
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#):
>
> I have observed however that men who insist on trying to get women to shake their hands often have boundary issues and that it can be the first clue that a man is a sexual predator if he places his own personal need to have his hand touched (why hand touching is so important is completely bizarre to me) over the women’s right to body integrity. Quite honestly why is that such a mystery to you?
THIS is the part we all have a problem with. This is NOT fine. The two parts of your statement are completely unrelated to each other. Why is that such a mystery to you?
Most of us gals here see things like **Anaamika** , not like you. Your views are … alien to me.
- sticks out hand for \*\*Clockwork \*\*to shake \*
---
### Author:  [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)
#### Post date: [September 24, 2010, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640/60 "2010-09-24T15:51:11Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#):
>
> - pop \*
>
> - pop \* \* pop \*
>
> - pop \*\* pop \*\* pop \*\* pop \*
Wow.
I just about lost it…
Thanks for the morning laughter!
I wanna shake your hand for that!
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640.md?page=2)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-ultra-orthodox-jews-handle-the-whole-menstruation-women-prohibitions/554640.md?page=4)