# How do Utah citizens not die of embarassment from Orrin Hatch, possibly the lyingest congressperson? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 1, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460 "2011-07-01T02:05:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/41 "2011-07-02T04:40:02Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The Democrats won’t stand up to the Republicans and the Republicans won’t stand up to the tea party… so guess who is controlling the debate? Me? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/42 "2011-07-02T04:54:53Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Sadly, no. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/43 "2011-07-03T06:32:37Z")
Utah puts up with Orrin Hatch because the Mormons beleive that they have a prophacy that some big event is going to hqppen when a Mormon becomes President of the United States. They have been grooming him for this position since I lived there in the 80’s. He said on a radio program at that time that every woman who has an abortion ends up regretting it and women who choose to have thier babies don’t. I spoke with one of his staffers about how stupid I found this remark haveing been a social worker protecting abused children, I was told he really didn’t mean “all” women in either case. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/44 "2011-07-03T07:13:31Z")
> [@adhemar](#): > > Utah puts up with Orrin Hatch because the Mormons beleive that they have a prophacy that some big event is going to hqppen when a Mormon becomes President of the United States. They have been grooming him for this position since I lived there in the 80’s. Just because this is The BBQ Pit doesn’t mean you can post utter BS and not get called on it. ---
**Author:** ![adhemar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@adhemar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhemar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/45 "2011-07-03T15:09:01Z")
You can believe me or not. That is what I was told whn I lived I lived in SLC in the ealy 80’s and I questioned some the stupidity he said even then. ---
**Author:** ![Condescending\_Robot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a183cd/32.png) [@Condescending\_Robot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Condescending_Robot)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/46 "2011-07-03T15:13:59Z")
The OP makes a good point about how the Mormon religion, with its even wackier and even more easily disprovable tenets than other religions, causes fundamental cognitive dissonance in its adherents. When one’s whole life is built on mutual acceptance of obvious falsehoods and a cult/theocracy-like climate of terror, there’s no way it COULDN’T affect the political culture of a state and the sort of behavior that the leaders produced by such a culture exhibit. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/47 "2011-07-03T16:48:46Z")
> [@Condescending\_Robot](#): > > The OP makes a good point about how the Mormon religion, with its even wackier and even more easily disprovable tenets than other religions, causes fundamental cognitive dissonance in its adherents. When one’s whole life is built on mutual acceptance of obvious falsehoods and a cult/theocracy-like climate of terror, there’s no way it COULDN’T affect the political culture of a state and the sort of behavior that the leaders produced by such a culture exhibit. I think that is more on the money than many would think. As I have been involved in many climate change discussions, one of the scientists I like to check is Barry Bickmore, from Utah (BYU), Republican, Mormon!, and he admits that he was originally taken by the climate change deniers but he managed to get better. It has been interesting seeing how he has communicated with Hatch and he has had some success on getting him to change some bits on Hatch’s official position, a position that is the usual tune of the Republicans nowadays to deny the science but Hatch is still letting irrationality take control. > **[My Second Reply to Senator Hatch](https://bbickmore.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/my-second-reply-to-senator-hatch/)** > > Below is my reply to this letter from Senator Orrin Hatch (R-Utah).  I’ve collected all my posts about Orrin Hatch here. Dear Senator Hatch, Thanks for your March 30 reply to my criticisms ab… > [@](#): > > When you add all this up and boil it down, it’s hard to avoid the following conclusions. 1) Even if you’ve tried to get up to speed on the science of climate change, there are still very large gaps in your understanding of the basics. 2) Some of the scientists you are getting your information from have taken advantage of these gaps to mislead you about the state of the evidence regarding the fundamental scientific questions. 3) You have been susceptible to this manipulation by this tiny minority of climate scientists because it’s more convenient, in terms of our shared political ideology, to believe there is no climate change problem to solve, since most of the solutions proposed so far have involved greater government regulation. Or at least, you find it convenient to “keep an open mind,” which allows you to do essentially nothing while avoiding head-to-head confrontations with the majority of climate scientists. > > You confirmed this last conclusion when you said, “As a policymaker, I am always wary of any effort to centralize control of human activity. And I am genuinely skeptical that turning control of human carbon emissions over to centralized powers is useful or desirable at this time.” \* > > My challenge to you is to be a real conservative, rather than simply a right-wing ideologue. A real conservative confronts problems, and tries to find solutions that involve the least possible government interference. Right-wing ideologues try to pretend there are no problems for the government to solve. Don’t believe a tiny minority of scientists just because you are pre-disposed to want reasons to doubt the consensus. There are always reasons for doubt, so a few grey areas in the science should not be sufficient to allow us to ignore clear evidence that we are subjecting ourselves and our children to grave risks. - Knowing what Brickmore and the super majority of expert scientists say about the issue that deserves a :rolleyes: for Hatch. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/48 "2011-07-03T17:33:27Z")
Blaming geographical areas inside the U.S. for their representatives isn’t sound imo. It’s not like there’s much of a choice or a line of causality connecting the people to the person. There are two factions offering their pick, one will win no matter what. Ditto for POTUS. Just blame the specific person or their party and media backers. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/49 "2011-07-03T18:14:24Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > President Obama is crazy to think that the business jet tax policy will make much difference, especially right now. > [@Mr.Moto](#): > > It is a depreciation tax. Now, the difference here is a change from depreciating the plane over five years to depreciating it over seven years. > > That amounts to a fraction of a percent of the budget. Not enough to warrant a mention from the President several times in an afternoon. > > Calling that window dressing would be an insult to properly dressed windows everywhere. Well, one [corporate jet “expert” claims](http://www.businessinsider.com/what-the-corporate-jet-tax-break-really-means-2011) the revenue from eliminating this particular loophole would bring about $3billion over 10 years. So, because it’s only about $300million a year, it’s a really silly loophole to be focusing on. Mm hmm Planned Parenthood cost the federal government about $300million a year, too. But Republicans spent months, literally **SCREAMING** at us about how “we can’t afford” that kind of money because “we’re broke.” Mm hmm As to Orrin Hatch being the lyingest liar in the Senate, maybe, maybe not. I don’t need to make comparisons to think he’s a scumbag who doesn’t really give a crap about this country or what’s right for it, but is merely playing party politics for his own selfish ends. Why do I conclude that? > [@](#): > > \*\* > FLOOR STATEMENT: “INTRODUCTION OF THE DREAM ACT” > > Statement of Senator Orrin G. Hatch > before the > United States Senate > > On the Introduction of the “DREAM” Act > “Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act”\*\* > > Thank you, Mr. President. I rise today to introduce legislation that will help make the American dream a reality for many young people. “The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act,” or “The DREAM Act,” resolves immigration status problems that plague undocumented immigrants who came to our country as youths. It also removes barriers to education so that they are better equipped to succeed in our society. > > Each year, about fifty thousand young undocumented immigrants graduate from high school in the United States. Most of them came to this country with their parents as small children and have been raised here just like their U.S. citizen classmates. They view themselves as Americans, and are loyal to our country. Some may not even realize that they are here in violation of our immigration laws. They grow up to become honest and hardworking adolescents and young adults, and strive for academic as well as professional excellence. > > Many of these youngsters find themselves caught in a catch-22 situation. As illegal immigrants, they cannot work legally. Moreover, they are effectively barred from developing academically beyond high school because of the high cost of pursuing higher education. Private colleges and universities are very expensive, and under current federal law, state institutions cannot grant in-state tuition to illegal immigrants, regardless of how long they have resided in that state. To make matters worse, as illegal immigrants, these young people are ineligible for federal tuition assistance. Moreover, these young people have no independent way of becoming legal residents of the United States. > > In short, though these children have built their lives here, they have no possibility of achieving and living the American dream. What a tremendous loss to our society. > > Blah Blah Blah [I got this from his very own website at hatch.senate.gov.](http://hatch.senate.gov/newsite/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_id=207109&Month=7&Year=2003&IsTextOnly=True) But now that Democrats and President Obama have embraced it? “Sen. Orrin Hatch, Utah’s other Republican senator and a former sponsor of the act, skipped the vote to attend a grandson’s college graduation but said in a statement that he would have voted against the bill, **calling it a ploy by Democrats to gain favor with their base voters**.” [Bennett backs Dream Act; Hatch skips vote](http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50900883-76/bennett-act-vote-hatch.html.csp) That’s just filthy. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460/50 "2011-07-03T23:40:39Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Blaming geographical areas inside the U.S. for their representatives isn’t sound imo. It’s not like there’s much of a choice or a line of causality connecting the people to the person. There are two factions offering their pick, one will win no matter what. Ditto for POTUS. Just blame the specific person or their party and media backers. I can’t tell if you are serious or making a parody of the hard-line individual responsibility meme coming out of the right these days. After all, you are applying individual responsibility to the heart of representative government. The people select this guy to go to Washington and speak for them. It isn’t merely a function of two factions offering up two choices- there is the primary system and of course the general consensus of the population. And it isn’t like Hatch is a maverick politician like say Scott Walker (Surprise, everybody!!! We’re gutting the unions) who very well may get impeached after his first year. Hatch has been at it since 1977. Saying, “You can’t blame _Utah_ for Orrin Hatch” strikes me as a little, well… I don’t know, it is strange. OTOH the parties, media, rich people and shenanegans do all play their part. Clarify, please. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-utah-citizens-not-die-of-embarassment-from-orrin-hatch-possibly-the-lyingest-congressperson/587460.md?page=2)