# How do voter ID laws suppress minority votes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 11, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968 "2013-08-11T22:09:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/121 "2013-08-16T01:03:21Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Are you aware that the Supreme Court ruled in _Crawford v. Marion County_ that requiring photo ID for voting does NOT offend the Constitution and upheld the law? > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > And they have changed their minds when they realized that the underlying assumptions of their rulings were false. And scientists have revised their conclusions when they realized they were in error. So evolution and global warming are in trouble, just as soon as they do. Or it’s a fallacy to use the claim you just did. You pick. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/122 "2013-08-16T01:50:25Z")
Scientists will also revise their conclusions about the medical efficacy of unicorn powder just as soon as they are proven false. Which works for scientists because they have a very defined set of protocols for fact. The law ain’t like that. You may dearly wish it were, but it ain’t. The law is people, as people change, the law changes. Science seeks to find facts that are not alterable by opinion. But the law must change precisely _because_ of a change of opinion. We are not the same people we were in the late 18th Century. That much is obvious. At least, I sure hope that’s obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/123 "2013-08-16T02:56:49Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Ok. Just get the state legislatures to approve it. [Right.](http://www.gop.com/news/research/the-case-against-obamacare/) [Because](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/boehner-defends-opposition-obamacare-protection-american-people_741022.html) [if there’s](http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/316773-rand-paul-defends-opposition-to-obamacare-on-the-daily-show) [one thing](http://m.freedomworks.org/blog/jborowski/states-seek-to-nullify-obamacare) [conservatives](http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/how-to-replace-obamacare) [respect](http://blog.heritage.org/2011/01/17/list-of-states-suing-over-obamacare/), [it’s the](http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2013/05/03/290821.htm) [sanctity](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/24/republicans-use-budget-bills-in-fight-against-obam/?page=all) [and](http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/) [finality](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/02/gop-obamacare-vote_n_3695871.html) [of the](http://civitasreview.com/healthcare/half-of-us-states-suing-to-stop-obamacare/) [legislative](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/14/1231268/-GOP-still-plans-to-repeal-and-replace-Obamacare-with-nothing) [process](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57596911/ryan-more-effective-ways-to-repeal-obamacare-than-government-shutdown/). Conservatives should rest assured their ideas will receive the same respect. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/124 "2013-08-16T15:54:38Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > [Right.](http://www.gop.com/news/research/the-case-against-obamacare/) [Because](http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/boehner-defends-opposition-obamacare-protection-american-people_741022.html) [if there’s](http://thehill.com/video/in-the-news/316773-rand-paul-defends-opposition-to-obamacare-on-the-daily-show) [one thing](http://m.freedomworks.org/blog/jborowski/states-seek-to-nullify-obamacare) [conservatives](http://www.nationalaffairs.com/publications/detail/how-to-replace-obamacare) [respect](http://blog.heritage.org/2011/01/17/list-of-states-suing-over-obamacare/), [it’s the](http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2013/05/03/290821.htm) [sanctity](http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/jul/24/republicans-use-budget-bills-in-fight-against-obam/?page=all) [and](http://www.dontfundobamacare.com/) [finality](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/02/gop-obamacare-vote_n_3695871.html) [of the](http://civitasreview.com/healthcare/half-of-us-states-suing-to-stop-obamacare/) [legislative](http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/14/1231268/-GOP-still-plans-to-repeal-and-replace-Obamacare-with-nothing) [process](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57596911/ryan-more-effective-ways-to-repeal-obamacare-than-government-shutdown/). > > Conservatives should rest assured their ideas will receive the same respect. Why are you trying to rebut my arguments by pointing to things “conservatives” do? I’m not King of the Conservatives. I don’t have any particular sway over the actions you’ve listed above – and if you’ll do a search, you’ll see that from the very beginning I was of the opinion that Obamacare was perfectly constitutional. So what’s the deal? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/125 "2013-08-16T16:13:04Z")
Might it not be that “neener-neener” is less an argument than a boast? And an increasingly empty boast, at that? ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/126 "2013-08-16T20:21:20Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Hmmmm…so, given that national elections are held every two years, you are saying that someone can’t come up with $47 and a ride at some point in that time period? Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. For some, coming up with $47 is a bit of a challenge. Do you not realize that? ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/127 "2013-08-16T21:55:20Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Not necessarily. The person who used my name to vote got there before me so I was the one not allowed to vote. Your response? > [@bobot](#): > > Please tell me more about this. Did someone forge your signature? How did this happen? > Where I vote, to pull this off, someone would have to know where I live, and be able to forge my signature. > What actions did you take when this happened to you? What did the election judges and/or the police have to say about it? No, really. What did the election judges and/or the police have to say to you about this. You are the first person to be the victim of this that I’ve ever “spoken” with. What were you told when you tried to vote? What were you advised as far as recourse? Your response? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2013, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/128 "2013-08-16T23:00:54Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Why are you trying to rebut my arguments by pointing to things “conservatives” do? You’re invoking a principle to defend a conservative cause. I pointed out that conservatives often choose not to follow that principle. So if they don’t follow it, they can’t call on other people to do so. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/129 "2013-08-17T00:09:36Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve already offered my suggestion. Have a special voter ID card. Everyone would be issued one before an election. > > Every state would have an office issuing these cards. (No more than one per state in order to cut down on government spending.) And to be most convenient the offices would be located in the middle of the largest city in each state. So we’d have offices in the downtown neighbourhoods of Manhattan, Los Angeles, Chicago, Houston, Miami, Philadelphia, Detroit, Atlanta, etc. And anyone who wants to vote would just have to travel from wherever they live to these neighbourhoods. > > This is a neutral and impartial program open to everyone and I can’t imagine it would have any effect on who votes. Well, a lot of these states do issue a voting card. It is mailed to the address where the voter is registered. In the past this card was enough to vote, now they want photo ID and the people who don’t have the required photo IDs are much more likely to be minorities. > [@Bricker](#): > > Ok. Just get the state legislatures to approve it. Or get the Supreme Court to overturn it. > [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I deny it. Despite statements by folks like the Pennsylvania Republican party chairman to the effect that these Voter ID laws will deliver the state to Romney? > [@](#): > > Having answered your question, I should point out that the “purpose” of a hydroelectric dam financing law that passes when 100 legislators vote for it is not all that clear. Thirty may have voted for the law out of a belief it was wise public policy, ten out of an obligation to pay back the vote for the highway project they asked for last month, and sixty because the Whip told them the Speaker’s committee assignments next term would depend on who cooperated - and the Speaker’s motive was the envelope of fat cash given to him last night by the leading candidates for the award of the dam construction contract. > > In that case, the “purpose” of the dam is … what? > > The answer is that the purpose is to finance a hydroelectric dam, and the individual motivations of the legislators is utterly irrelevant. Aside from the fact that there is such a clear partisan divide on this issue and the Republicans have admitted that they are trying to suppress the vote. > [@](#): > > Why aren’t those ideas supported by Democrats? Lefty people on this very board have refused to go along with the fingerprint idea as “oppressive” or some such nonsense. Yeah a few people are always on the fringes. I’m not seeing the reasonable middle going along with this. > [@](#): > > I don’t know. I think the unwillingness to highlight those aspects of the NC law is highly suspicious. There may well be legitimate reasons for these moves. But in my opinion, someone who has legitimate reasons typically doesn’t hesitate to advance them, so i conclude that the motives for those changes are probably not legitimate, and I absolutely condemn such actions. > > But that doesn’t mean the baby gets thrown out with the bathwater. There ARE good reasons to support Voter ID. You think that the motives behind all these other voter suppression laws are suspect but the voter ID laws in the same bill are not because you can make a (barely) straight face argument that it might have some legitimate purpose?:dubious: > [@Bricker](#): > > And scientists have revised their conclusions when they realized they were in error. So evolution and global warming are in trouble, just as soon as they do. > > Or it’s a fallacy to use the claim you just did. > > You pick. There were express assumptions in those opinions just as there are in scientific consensus. If those assumptions turn out to be false then the conclusions don’t hold. In the case of evolution and global warming, you have some pretty tough assumptions to undermine. In the case of the recent attack on voter rights, I’m not so sure. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/130 "2013-08-17T00:29:47Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re invoking a principle to defend a conservative cause. I pointed out that conservatives often choose not to follow that principle. So if they don’t follow it, they can’t call on other people to do so. Does this rule affect me in some way, or are you simply choosing this moment in the thread to point out inconsistent action from that group of conservatives? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/131 "2013-08-17T00:37:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Despite statements by folks like the Pennsylvania Republican party chairman to the effect that these Voter ID laws will deliver the state to Romney? I have no idea why he said that. Perhaps he believed, without any evidence, that illegal voters in Pennsylvania number in the hundreds of thousands, and he’s a fool. Perhaps he believed that the measures would stop legitimate Democrats from voting. I don’t know. But it’s not relevant – as I explained above, a law’s purpose can be many different things in the minds of the many people who vote for it. There is no reason it’ singular, true “purpose” is any one of those many things. > [@](#): > > Aside from the fact that there is such a clear partisan divide on this issue and the Republicans have admitted that they are trying to suppress the vote. I’m not aware of any Republicans admitting that they are approving Voter ID measures to suppress the vote. > [@](#): > > You think that the motives behind all these other voter suppression laws are suspect but the voter ID laws in the same bill are not because you can make a (barely) straight face argument that it might have some legitimate purpose?:dubious: I think that if a nondiscriminatory law is supported by valid neutral justifications, those justifications should not be disregarded simply because partisan interests may have provided one motivation for the votes of certain individual legislators. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/132 "2013-08-17T02:26:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Does this rule affect me in some way, or are you simply choosing this moment in the thread to point out inconsistent action from that group of conservatives? You’re the one that invoked the principle. Now it’s nice if you personally follow that principle but I pointed out that conservatives as a group cannot expect liberals as a group to follow a principle when conservatives as a group have shown they won’t follow it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/133 "2013-08-17T09:42:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You’re the one that invoked the principle. Now it’s nice if you personally follow that principle but I pointed out that conservatives as a group cannot expect liberals as a group to follow a principle when conservatives as a group have shown they won’t follow it. I doubt liberals would follow that principle even if conservatives had consistently shown the greatest fidelity to it. But yours is not a new observation – it’s happened before. Conservatives respect and defend states’ rights…until the state in question votes in medical marijuana or assisted suicide. Then the federal government’s wise oversight is ideal, and should be judicially defended. But that’s not me. I think medical marijuana is an unwise legislative choice, but within a state’s plenary regulatory power. So, too, assisted suicide. Are you debating “conservatives,” or me? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/134 "2013-08-17T12:05:02Z")
All I will add is I was 100% in favor of voter ID laws until a clerical error\* led to my being disenfranchised this last spring, being presented with a letter (badly photocopied; don’t people have printers???) from the county election commission which not only told me I was ineligible to vote because they had no record of my existence, but that I should keep in mind the serious penalties for trying to vote when not legally eligible to do so, and the serious penalties for being in the United States legally. It was cleared up - a week after the election. At no time did they tell me I could cast a provisional ballot, and I didn’t exert myself to do such because I was too worried from the sternness of the letter that somehow I might be making things worse by trying to do that. I’m still in favor of voter ID but clearly it needs to err more on the side of acceptance and in my state at least, it needs to be much more clear about what my options were. - after making an effort to update them and tell them that I was now legally female and with a different name, and receiving assurances that all files were updated… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/135 "2013-08-17T12:09:19Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But that’s not me. I think medical marijuana is an unwise legislative choice, but within a state’s plenary regulatory power. How do you feel about legal non-medical MJ? Treat it like alcohol or tobacco? Just curious, not trying to threadjack. PM me if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/136 "2013-08-17T17:07:04Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > How do you feel about legal non-medical MJ? Treat it like alcohol or tobacco? > Just curious, not trying to threadjack. PM me if you like. Same thing: an unwise legislative choice, in my view, but one that Congress should not have the power to regulate. It should be entirely within the purview of, say, Colorado to make marijuana legal. If I were a resident of Colorado, I’d work to defeat such a measure. But if it passes, that ought to be the operative law of Colorado. ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/137 "2013-08-17T17:10:03Z")
Makes sense I guess. Would you work towards alcohol prohibition? And tobacco? Or is it just marijuana you want to forbid people from using? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/138 "2013-08-17T17:37:37Z")
> [@aNewLeaf](#): > > Makes sense I guess. Would you work towards alcohol prohibition? And tobacco? > Or is it just marijuana you want to forbid people from using? I feel as though, from a practical matter, both of those cats have long escaped their bags. Tobacco is an especially insidious health risk, but we realized that too late to stem the tide. ---
**Author:** ![Ograbme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Ograbme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ograbme)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/139 "2013-08-17T17:39:59Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > All I will add is I was 100% in favor of voter ID laws until a clerical error\* led to my being disenfranchised this last spring, being presented with a letter (badly photocopied; don’t people have printers???) from the county election commission which not only told me I was ineligible to vote because they had no record of my existence, but that I should keep in mind the serious penalties for trying to vote when not legally eligible to Was the letter actually from the commission? Voter suppression orgs sometimes send out low-quality flyers telling people that they can’t vote. [Example 1](http://i.imgur.com/jlqCG87.jpg), [2](http://i.imgur.com/Wz4gngk.gif), [3](http://i.imgur.com/qJswTkE.gif), [4](http://i.imgur.com/SAzmSCC.gif) ---
**Author:** ![aNewLeaf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ac91a4/32.png) [@aNewLeaf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aNewLeaf)\ **Post date:** [August 17, 2013, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968/140 "2013-08-17T17:42:09Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I feel as though, from a practical matter, both of those cats have long escaped their bags. Tobacco is an especially insidious health risk, but we realized that too late to stem the tide. Plausible and logical. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-voter-id-laws-suppress-minority-votes/665968.md?page=8)