# How do we decide if not taking precautions against COVID is irresponsible and dangerous, generally as well as personally? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 12, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705 "2022-04-12T06:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/61 "2022-04-18T14:38:10Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I do still support masks. They still work. And unlike a vaccine passport, everyone can tell, immediately, if you have it. There’s no paperwork, nothing complicated. Are you masked right now, or not You think schools should keep masks permanently? I have to tell you, they really, really suck when you talk through them all day and they make it much harder to connect to students as people. Every teacher I know agrees with that. Its been hard to even learn names this year. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/62 "2022-04-18T14:50:15Z")
I’ve been teaching a gym class with everyone masked this year. It’s only 3 hours, and it’s only once a week. But I have to learn their names, and it’s important to connect with the students as people. But no, in my ideal world, we would all wear masks when numbers are high, and when they are low, everyone whose housemate had a scratchy throat, or whose housemate is immune compromised, would wear a mask, but most people wouldn’t. Except in classes where one of the participants (a student or the teacher) is immune compromised, in which case, yeah, I’d like them to all wear masks. But I don’t think you have to worry. There seems to be zero chance of the US becoming my “ideal world”. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/63 "2022-04-18T18:43:57Z")
> **[Judge Throws Out Federal Mask Mandate for Public Transportation](https://www.wsj.com/articles/judge-throws-out-federal-mask-mandate-for-public-transportation-11650306480?st=onhrz9j1oucxsas&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink)** > > U.S. District Judge Kathryn Kimball Mizelle said the Covid-19 mandate exceeded the authority of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. should be a free link. 😢 I don’t care about airplanes, but I’ll be really sad if I have to commute on crowded germy trains with no (or few) masks. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/64 "2022-04-18T23:08:15Z")
I get the other side, I really do, but this stuff can’t keep lasting forever and ever. Apart from being legally unassailable, the ruling is a welcome relief from the decree of executives acting as kings (yes, Obama, Trump, and Biden). Time to get back to passing public policy through Congress. But, back to the point: I was all for this type of mitigation at first, but we are past TWO YEARS and there is no political will to stop it. Just STOP it. It has to run its course. ETA: As the administration isn’t jumping to appeal this, it seems that they are content with having this burden lifted as well. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2022, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/65 "2022-04-18T23:55:16Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > ETA: As the administration isn’t jumping to appeal this, it seems that they are content with having this burden lifted as well They are “reviewing” but letting the decision stand while they do… I get the impression they may have been considering _not_ continuing it any further than their latest extension, and may feel it’s not worth going to the mat for 14 more days. It honestly, truly, did not bother me at all while it was on and I will probably continue to take caution in mass transit. I am though bracing myself for a not insignificant number of maskholes who’ll try to make this mean that _nobody_ should mask _anywhere_ and that _no_ business may make a requirement. Because you know they will. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/66 "2022-04-19T00:00:54Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I am though bracing myself for a not insignificant number of maskholes who’ll try to make this mean that _nobody_ should mask _anywhere_ and that _no_ business may make a requirement. Because you know they will. Of course they will. And we both know that they are wrong and should be educated and/or punished accordingly. ETA: Wrong for attacking YOU for wearing a mask, not for believing that a mask mandate should not continue. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/67 "2022-04-19T00:37:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > But you vax status isn’t like that, and it was also RELEVANT to that bank teller. I disagree, firmly. My vaccination status is none of her business. And before accusations start flying, I’m fully vaccinated/boosted for Covid, and everything else that’s appropriate for me. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/68 "2022-04-19T00:38:26Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > They are “reviewing” but letting the decision stand while they do… What do you mean, they’re “letting the decision stand”? They don’t have the power to do so. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/69 "2022-04-19T01:12:51Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I disagree, firmly. My vaccination status is none of her business. > > And before accusations start flying, I’m fully vaccinated/boosted for Covid, and everything else that’s appropriate for me. Do you think that you should have the right to be in a workplace or some other crowded space, knowing that the people around you are vaccinated? And contrary to what you said upthread, this isn’t a function of trying to satisfy a “small group of people’s preferences.” This is a public health issue that can experience a fair bit of mitigation for relatively little cost - that is, don’t let unvaxxed people into certain spaces. How is this any different from or worse than making indoor spaces non-smoking, for example? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/70 "2022-04-19T03:32:37Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I disagree, firmly. My vaccination status is none of her business It was the teller’s business when it had a significant impact on their risk of catching a nasty disease from you. Anything that directly affects a person’s health, wealth, and welfare is legitimately their business, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/71 "2022-04-19T04:13:07Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Do you think that you should have the right to be in a workplace or some other crowded space, knowing that the people around you are vaccinated? No, I don’t think that I should. Where does that “right” come from? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 8:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/72 "2022-04-19T08:08:32Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What do you mean, they’re “letting the decision stand”? They don’t have the power to do so. I think that they rather easily could get a stay pending appeal if they wanted, but as I said, this is a win-win for Biden. It takes the burden off of his shoulders but he can still tell those who want masks forever that he tried but that corrupt Republican judge wouldn’t let him. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/73 "2022-04-19T08:30:14Z")
I suspect you are right about that. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/74 "2022-04-19T08:45:48Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Do you think that you should have the right to be in a workplace or some other crowded space, knowing that the people around you are vaccinated? If the vaccines worked in the traditional way, then I’m a maybe on that question. But when vaccinated and boosted people can catch and spread Covid as well, it seems like a rather worthless piece of information for the teller to have. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/75 "2022-04-19T10:08:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > No, I don’t think that I should Ok, fair enough. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/76 "2022-04-19T10:31:49Z")
This, of course, was only true since December when Omicron made it only 1/3 as likely to get (and spread) it when you were vaccinated, instead of 1/10 or whatever. Before Omicron, it was much more effective. So, I assume you agree that, pre-Omicron, it was very useful information. I think with BA.2, you’re still half as likely to become infected if you’re vaccinated. Let’s not pretend the vaccines are completely ineffective in terms of containing this disease. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/77 "2022-04-19T10:42:22Z")
So with that, if the teller was vaccinated, then she shouldn’t worry if her customers are. You really can’t have this both ways. If vaccines are effective, then you should feel safe by being vaccinated and not care if the other person is. But it seems like you are saying that even though the teller is vaccinated, she knows it isn’t effective because others may transmit the disease to her…yet should (and others say MUST) know the vaccine status of each person coming in…even though she doesn’t trust her own vaccine protection. Why then should she trust that her vaccinated customers are not carriers? ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/78 "2022-04-19T11:05:25Z")
Let’s suppose your chances of getting it are cut to 1/3 if you’re vaccinated compared to if you’re not (about the level during the first omicron wave. If you and your coworker are both vaccinated, that will cut your chances to 1/9, right? I could be wrong on that math, but certainly your chances of getting it as a teller is lower if your co-workers are also vaccinated. This is me, having it both ways. Happy birthday or join day, or whatever that cake means! ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/79 "2022-04-19T12:03:41Z")
> [@UltraVires](#): > > You really can’t have this both ways. If vaccines are effective, then you should feel safe by being vaccinated and not care if the other person is. This is a line straight out of the anti-vaxer playbook. It betrays a deep deep misunderstanding of what a vaccine is and how it works. > [@RitterSport](#): > > This, of course, was only true since December when Omicron made it only 1/3 as likely to get (and spread) it when you were vaccinated, instead of 1/10 or whatever. Before Omicron, it was much more effective. So, I assume you agree that, pre-Omicron, it was very useful information. It’s actually the opposite. When my vaccination made me almost certain not to get it, it mattered less whether the people around me were vaccinated. Now that the vaccines are less effective at an individual level at stopping transmission it becomes more important that as many people as possible are vaccinated in order to get the full benefit that vaccines can provide. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/80 "2022-04-19T12:29:50Z")
> [@tofor](#): > > It betrays a deep deep misunderstanding of what a vaccine is and how it works. It displays a shocking mathematical illiteracy. I am very depressed by how many Americans have bought this flawed “reasoning”. It’s a reduction in risk, not an on-off switch. But yes, also a misunderstanding of how vaccines work. My triple-vaxxed mother died of covid, while the caretaker who gave it to her had a mild cold. Why? Because my mother was immune compromised, and her immune system wasn’t able to react properly to a vaccine. My brother’s partner is also immune compromised. So are about [3%](https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/what-does-immunocompromised-mean#:~:text=There%20isn't%20one%20'immunocompromised,%2D19%2C%20even%20after%20vaccination.) If Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705.md?page=5)