# How do we decide if not taking precautions against COVID is irresponsible and dangerous, generally as well as personally? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Quarantine Zone\ **Tags:** covid-quarantine\ **Created:** [April 12, 2022, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705 "2022-04-12T06:31:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/81 "2022-04-19T12:33:12Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I am very depressed by how many Americans have bought this flawed “reasoning”. Our whole response to this has been depressing. > [@tofor](#): > > It’s actually the opposite. When my vaccination made me almost certain not to get it, it mattered less whether the people around me were vaccinated. Now that the vaccines are less effective at an individual level at stopping transmission it becomes more important that as many people as possible are vaccinated in order to get the full benefit that vaccines can provide. I see what you’re saying. OK, I’ll have it all three ways instead of just both ways. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/82 "2022-04-19T12:54:40Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I see what you’re saying. OK, I’ll have it all three ways instead of just both ways. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/s7RmcdHrYuk/hqdefault.jpg "Fiddler on the Roof - They Can't Both Be Right") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7RmcdHrYuk) “He’s right, and he’s right? They can’t both be right.” “…You know, you are also right.” ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/83 "2022-04-19T13:05:53Z")
RitterSport, tofor, puzzlegal, You folks have responded to UltraVires’ response to me, in which he/she says “But when vaccinated and boosted people can catch and spread Covid as well, it seems like a rather worthless piece of information for the teller to have”, much better than I could have. Sincerely, thanks for that. My wife is immunocompromised and, though I’m very healthy for my age, I don’t want to needlessly get any level of Covid if I can **reasonably** avoid it. And I don’t think that the things we’ve been discussing are unreasonable. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/84 "2022-04-19T13:08:52Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > have bought this flawed “reasoning”. It’s a reduction in risk, not an on-off switch. > > But yes, also a misunderstanding of how vaccines work. Though there was IMO a bit of contributory half-information in the lead-in to the vaccine availability. In trying to get people motivated to go get the vaccine it was talked up to the point the less knowledgeable could get the impression it IS an on-off switch. As to the 3% immunocompromised, alas, too many people in this society take the position of “well, then, THEY get to never go back to ‘normal’, not the vast majority”. ---
**Author:** ![tofor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tofor/32/13727_2.png) [@tofor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tofor)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/85 "2022-04-19T13:50:19Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Though there was IMO a bit of contributory half-information in the lead-in to the vaccine availability. In trying to get people motivated to go get the vaccine it was talked up to the point the less knowledgeable could get the impression it IS an on-off switch. In the lead up we didn’t _know_ how it would do against transmission. That wasn’t part of the testing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/86 "2022-04-19T13:52:18Z")
Yeah, don’t get me started about how badly the CDC has communicated throughout the pandemic. 🤬 Anyway, i, personally, don’t think vaccination status is worth enough reduction in risk that i need to know it now, not since omicron both made the vaccine mush less able to give sterilizing immunity and ALSO infected most unvaccinated Americans. I think it was worth tracking pre-omicron, and i think the lack of “medical privacy” involved was trivial, comparable to seeing that you have a bandage, and frankly less private than seeing that you have a bruise that shows you had a recent blood test. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/87 "2022-04-19T13:55:56Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, don’t get me started about how badly the CDC has communicated throughout the pandemic. For sure. But, in their partial defense, everything here was new and there was new science all the time that they had to deal with. Since I wasn’t looking for an excuse not to mask, not to distance, not to get vaccinated, I just rolled with the punches. Early on, they said don’t bother masking, but clean all surfaces? Sure. Later, they changed and said masks do work, so I started masking. It wasn’t all that confusing, unless you were looking to be confused in order to do nothing. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/88 "2022-04-19T14:04:12Z")
Well, they were REALLY late to endorse masks. There was evidence out of Asia that the virus was airborne and that masks helped in the very early days, when i was still googling how much heat it took too kill the virus. I feel they did a disservice to people like you. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/89 "2022-04-19T14:28:45Z")
Well, I was pretty locked down anyway in those early days, which is really what they were pushing. My last day in the office was March 13 that year, and I basically just stayed at home and away from other people. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/90 "2022-04-19T14:37:25Z")
We were on a flight last night when the Flight Attendant announced in air “there is no longer a mask mandate on this airline, take them off if you want.” About 75% removed their masks within the next 10 minutes. It was strange to see requirement just disappear like that. When we landed, the people at the airport were about 50% masked, but there were still signs saying “masks required” although the P.A. announcements had stopped. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/91 "2022-04-19T14:58:03Z")
Going back to something mentioned before, I mever understood the viscerally hostile reaction to proof-of-vaccination requirements. However I expected them to eventually fall off sooner rather than later anyway due to the inconvenience vs. the authentication weakness (\*) (\*e.g. my current employer is across a state line from my place of residence. So shots I got at the workplace clinic are NOT entered in my “home state” health department database, and vice versa; the only place all three appear is on the handwritten paper card) ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/92 "2022-04-19T15:08:17Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > The pandemic is in no way over That’s part of the problem. When WILL it be over? COVID isn’t ever going away- all signs point to it becoming endemic, like influenza, or the other four human coronaviruses that produce very mild symptoms. (in fact, it’s speculated that one of those other coronaviruses was the cause of the 1889-1890 “flu” pandemic). That’s where I wish the relevant public health authorities would step up and define where that pandemic/endemic division is. I know intellectually that it’s not a stark division, but I think for social and public policy purposes, having an official “end point” to the pandemic would be helpful, because right now, we’re in a sort of twilight period where the pandemic isn’t officially over, but many (most?) people are acting and talking like it is. And that has to gall a lot of people who are still anxious about COVID/vulnerable to COVID (immunocompromised/fragile) because it feels a bit like society has betrayed them. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/93 "2022-04-19T15:47:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > And that has to gall a lot of people who are still anxious about COVID/vulnerable to COVID (immunocompromised/fragile) because it feels a bit like society has betrayed them. The flip side is that time marches on. Plenty of other things have happened in the two years of Covid that have nothing to do with Covid. People age and get older, get more infirm for other reasons. Other people grow up and may miss events and opportunities that they will never get back. With an aging parent and kids, I have experienced both sides. Our schools were virtual for more than a year. It did not work. Moreover, it was not particularly fair, since bars and restaurants were wide open for months and months while schools were virtual. It was dumb, but still it happened. Vaccinated young people have sacrificed enough. They cannot continue to punt away months and years of their lives they will never get back. Look at things from that side. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/94 "2022-04-19T15:53:53Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s where I wish the relevant public health authorities would step up and define where that pandemic/endemic division is. This, to me, is a really important and vexing issue. At the very same time that our (Ontario & Quebec’s) designated sixth wave was starting to ramp up, our authorities were lifting mandates and spouting platitude about citizens being responsible etc. IMHO they should be clearly stating that this thing is not going away and that the Joe Blow community centre is now a dedicated covid testing and vaxx facility as well as a big honking mask and PPE depot. Everyone keeps acting as though the end of the nth wave is the end, and then they go to panic stations when wave n+1 kicks off. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/95 "2022-04-19T16:17:20Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Vaccinated young people have sacrificed enough. They cannot continue to punt away months and years of their lives they will never get back. Look at things from that side. Screw the young. Their years aren’t any more important than an older person’s. None of us get any of it back. Shit happens. You adapt. You get over it. That’s 99% of how life works. I didn’t say that the immunocompromised/fragile are _right_ necessarily, just that I can see how they might feel a bit like they’re being sacrificed/ignored on the altar of “getting back to normal”. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/96 "2022-04-19T16:36:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > didn’t say that the immunocompromised/fragile are _right_ necessarily, just that I can see how they might feel a bit like they’re being sacrificed/ignored on the altar of “getting back to normal”. Yeah, I do. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/97 "2022-04-19T16:43:49Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Our schools were virtual for more than a year. It did not work. Moreover, it was not particularly fair, since bars and restaurants were wide open for months and months while schools were virtual. It was dumb, but still it happened. Yeah, that was dumb. We should have closed the in-door dining and drinking, and opened the schools around the time when we made the opposite decision. Schools would have been okay with upgraded ventilation and masks. But you can’t mask while eating. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/98 "2022-04-19T17:49:39Z")
Exactly. I’m kind of idly wondering whether we’ll see another autumn/winter spike just like we have the past couple of years. If you remember, case counts were spectacularly low at this point last year as well. But Delta and Omicron happened, and they shot back up… twice. The same thing could happen again, but without that guidance of “it’s endemic and seasonal. When your local case counts get above X threshold, do these things. If it continues to rise above Y, then add these things” and so on, and so forth. That sort of straightforward guidelines to local authorities and the populace in general would go a long way toward making people comfortable with the idea that the pandemic is over, and that we have a plan for how to deal with spikes going forward. But right now, it’s neither here nor there; nobody’s officially said it’s over, but everyone’s acting like it is. And they’re going to be _shocked_ when there’s a spike in the fall, I guarantee. “I thought they said it was over!” is what we’re going to hear. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2022, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/99 "2022-04-19T17:52:32Z")
On the other hand, I’ve seen it said (by a total layman, granted) that this ruling says the CDC can’t impose mandates ever under any circumstance, and that letting it stand would set precedent that would hamstring them in future events like this. True/false? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705/100 "2022-04-20T00:42:07Z")
I think that is an overstatement. I can’t cite the exact language but there was some reference to the CDC being able to regulate “sanitation” on public transportation as a hook for this regulation which the judge said was too tenuous a fit for a mask mandate. I’m sure that the CDC could still do CDC-y things, but just not impose such broad mandates on society that is beyond Congress’ intent (similar to the OSHA mandate).and especially those that last a year and a half when Congress has had ample opportunity to address the issue. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-decide-if-not-taking-precautions-against-covid-is-irresponsible-and-dangerous-generally-as-well-as-personally/962705.md?page=6)