# How do we end American Imperialism? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 28, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286 "2016-08-28T15:10:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/61 "2016-08-29T21:33:35Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > You have mentioned before that you keep trying to change the Wikipedia entry to this and that it keeps getting changed back. The reason it keeps getting changed back is because your belief in this regard is utter nonsense. At no time have I mentioned that nor have I done so. The history stands. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/62 "2016-08-29T21:45:22Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > She moved to do so, against the advice of her entire cabinet. That’s hardly the same thing, is it? She backed down, and even promised to abide by the amendment process laid down in the 1887 Constitution. You said in post 34 that she “unilaterally abrogated the democratic Constitution”, and that’s simply not correct. The coup was by the Committee of Safety, not the Queen. > [@](#): > > Cite? "natural born citizens of the Hawaiian Kingdom, or naturalized Citizens of the Kingdom " could vote. Whats wrong with that? [The 1887 Constitution](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1887_Constitution_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hawaii): Every male resident of the Hawaiian Islands of Hawaiian, American or European birth or descent, who shall have attained the age of twenty years, and shall have paid his taxes, and shall have caused his name to be entered on the list of voters for Nobles for his District, shall be an elector of Nobles, and shall be entitled to vote at any election of Nobles, provided: It wasn’t “naturalized citizens”, it was “residents”, and only those of specific descent. Asians need not apply. > [@](#): > > The Constitution did have some property requirements for the Senate, but so did the USA for a time. So, referring to the 1887 Constitution as “democratic” without that context is misleading, especially given the takeover by wealthy foreign residents that was occurring - men with a vested interest in limiting the vote to rich men from American and Europe. > [@](#): > > No, read it again: _When all the work was done, there were over 21,000 signatures- men’s and women’s in about equal numbers. When one considers that the population of Native Hawaiians at the time was less than 40,000, this is an impressive number._ Half the Native Population. And we know the shenanigans one can do with petitions. Like faking signatures, signing it multiple times, and so forth. Fair, I overlooked the “native” qualifier. > [@](#): > > However, not a single native member of Legislature voted against annexation. Again, the royalists had boycotted the republic, and 99% of people didn’t vote in the preceding election. The legislature was not a representative body at that time. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/63 "2016-08-29T22:00:38Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The conventional story is that the CIA, under Kissinger’s direction and advice, was instrumental in the overthrow of Allende. Instrumental how? What did they do to directly support the coup? My understanding was that the Senate thoroughly investigated the entire incident and found that the US government was aware of, but not directly involved in, the coup. > [@Trinopus](#): > > The result was a long and ugly dictatorship. While Chile wasn’t exactly a wonderful place to live in the '70’s and '80’s, my impression is that it was fairly mild and small potatos compared to plenty of other 20th-century world events. I don’t know that the Pinochet dictatorship really ranks up there with the “biggest mistakes the US has ever made”. I’d imagine things like Hiroshima, the Japanese internment, something about how we treated the Indians, maybe Vietnam, or Iraq II are a good order of magnitude ahead of it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/64 "2016-08-29T22:01:35Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > That’s hardly the same thing, is it? She backed down, and even promised to abide by the amendment process laid down in the 1887 Constitution. > > You said in post 34 that she “unilaterally abrogated the democratic Constitution”, and that’s simply not correct. The coup was by the Committee of Safety, not the Queen. > > So, referring to the 1887 Constitution as “democratic” without that context is misleading, especially given the takeover by wealthy foreign residents that was occurring - men with a vested interest in limiting the vote to rich men from American and Europe. > Again, the royalists had boycotted the republic, and 99% of people didn’t vote in the preceding election. The legislature was not a representative body at that time. What Coup? The Queen was loony, everyone thought so, she had zero support except among the Royal family. Her “constitution” was simply bonkers. She was attempting the coup, not them, they just removed a figurehead that was acting in rebellion. Those “wealthy foreign residents” were men who were born on the islands, of parents who were born on the islands. Who served with distinction for years in the government. What make them “foreign”? True, the Queen would have disenfranchised them, as they were the wrong race. > **[Lorrin A. Thurston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorrin_A._Thurston)** > > Lorrin Andrews Thurston (July 31, 1858 – May 11, 1931) was an Hawaiian-American lawyer, politician, and businessman. Thurston played a prominent role in the revolution that caused the Overthrow of the Hawaiian Kingdom that replaced Queen Liliʻuokalani with the Republic of Hawaii, guided by American ideas. He published the Pacific Commercial Advertiser (a forerunner of the present-day Honolulu Star-Advertiser), and owned other enterprises. From 1906 to 1916, he and his network lobbied with natio... ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/65 "2016-08-29T22:03:10Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Again, the royalists had boycotted the republic, and 99% of people didn’t vote in the preceding election. The legislature was not a representative body at that time. That was their choice. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/66 "2016-08-29T22:33:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What Coup? 😕 The one where the armed men of the Honolulu Rifles occupied government buildings, disarmed the Royal Guard, and oh yeah, _proclaimed a provisional government._ > [@](#): > > The Queen was loony, everyone thought so, she had zero support except among the Royal family. It’s funny you would say that… [The 1887 Constitution again…](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1887_Constitution_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hawaii) ARTICLE 25. No person shall ever sit upon the Throne, who has been convicted of any infamous crime, or who is insane, or an idiot. And yet, instead of invoking this provision through the legislator, the coup’s backers simply brought out the gunman and declared themselves to be the new government. > [@](#): > > Her “constitution” was simply bonkers. Have you actually read it? [Here it is.](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1893_Constitution_of_the_Kingdom_of_Hawaii) Please point out the “bonkers” parts. It describes a typical constitutional monarchy. > [@](#): > > She was attempting the coup, not them, they just removed a figurehead that was acting in rebellion. Except for the part where she didn’t actually do anything; and the part where they overthrew the government along with this “figurehead”. > [@](#): > > Those “wealthy foreign residents” were men who were born on the islands, of parents who were born on the islands. Who served with distinction for years in the government. What make them “foreign”? True, the Queen would have disenfranchised them, as they were the wrong race. > [Lorrin A. Thurston - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorrin_A._Thurston) [The Blount Report](http://libweb.hawaii.edu/digicoll/annexation/blount/br0587.html) In less than thirty hours the petitioners have overturned the throne, established a new government, and obtained the recognition of foreign powers. Let us see whether any of these petitioners are American citizens^ and if so whether they were entitled to protection, and if entitled to protection at this point whether or not subsequently thereto their conduct was such as could be sanctioned as proper on the part of American citizens in a foreign country. Mr. Henry B. Cooper is an American citizen; was a member of the committee of safety; was a participant from the beginning in their schemes to overthrow the Queen, establish a Provisional Government, and visited Capt. Wiltse’s vessel, with a view of securing the aid of American troops, and made an encouraging report thereon. He. an American citizen, read the proclamation dethroning the Queen and tablishing the Provisional Government. Mr. F. W. McChesney is an American citizen; was cooperating in the revolutionary movement, and had been a member of the advisory council from its inception. Mr. W. 0. Wilder is a naturalized citizen of the Hawaiian Islands, owing no allegiance to any other country. He was one of the original members of the advisory council, and one of the orators in the mass meeting on the morning of January 16.Mr. C. Bolte is of German origin, but a regularly naturalized citizen of the Hawaiian Islands. Mr. A. Brown is a Scotchman and has never been naturalized. Mr. W. O. Smith is a native of foreign origin and a subject of the Islands. Mr. Henry Waterhouse, originally from Tasmania, is a naturalized citizen of the islands. Mr. Theo. F. Lansing is a citizen of the United States, owing and claiming allegiance thereto. He has never been naturalized in this country. Mr. Ed. Suhr is a German subject. Mr. L. A. Thurston is a native-born subject of the Hawaiian Islands, of foreign origin. Mr. John Emmeluth is an American citizen. Mr. W. E. Castle is a Hawaiian of foreign parentage. Mr. J. A. McCandless is a citizen of the United States - never having been naturalized here. **Six are Hawaiians subjects; five are American citizens; one English, and one German. A majority are foreign subjects.** if will be observed that they sign as “Citizens’ committee of safety.” This is the first time American troops were ever landed on these islands at the instance of a committee of safety without notice to the existing government. It is to be observed that they claim to be a citizens’ committee of safety and that they are not simply applicants for the protection of the property and lives of American citizens. My bolding. Nope, no foreign influence there, nosiree. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/67 "2016-08-29T22:35:04Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That was their choice. That’s as may be. But again, you’re omitting context. One could say that Stalin must have been beloved; look how the Party Congress supported his ideas! If the legislature isn’t representative, you can’t use their actions as a proxy for popular will. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/68 "2016-08-29T23:02:10Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I think we need to stop meddling in the affairs of other countries. How do we end American Imperialism? First, we would have to begin it. The US involvement in other countries is not imperialism. It’s for the most part stupidity on the part of our elected leaders. If another country is having civil unrest, that’s their problem. Let them kill each other till the cows come home; we certainly shouldn’t be involved in it. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/69 "2016-08-29T23:04:15Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [The Blount Report](http://libweb.hawaii.edu/digicoll/annexation/blount/br0587.html) > > In less than thirty hours the petitioners have overturned the throne, established a new government, and obtained the recognition of foreign powers. > Let us see whether any of these petitioners are American citizens^ and if so whether they were entitled to protection, and if entitled to protection at this point whether or not subsequently thereto their conduct was such as could be sanctioned as proper on the part of American citizens in a foreign country. > Mr. Henry B. Cooper is an American citizen; was a member of the committee of safety; was a participant from the beginning in their schemes to overthrow the Queen, establish a Provisional Government, and visited Capt. Wiltse’s vessel, with a view of securing the aid of American troops, and made an encouraging report thereon. He. an American citizen, read the proclamation dethroning the Queen and tablishing the > Provisional Government. Mr. F. W. McChesney is an American citizen; was cooperating in the revolutionary movement, and had been a member of the advisory council from its inception. > Mr. W. 0. Wilder is a naturalized citizen of the Hawaiian Islands, owing no allegiance to any other country. > He was one of the original members of the advisory council, and one of the orators in the mass meeting on the > morning of January 16.Mr. C. Bolte is of German origin, but a regularly naturalized citizen of the Hawaiian Islands. > Mr. A. Brown is a Scotchman and has never been naturalized. Mr. W. O. Smith is a native of foreign origin > and a subject of the Islands. > Mr. Henry Waterhouse, originally from Tasmania, is a naturalized citizen of the islands. > Mr. Theo. F. Lansing is a citizen of the United States, owing and claiming allegiance thereto. He has > never been naturalized in this country. > Mr. Ed. Suhr is a German subject. > Mr. L. A. Thurston is a native-born subject of the Hawaiian Islands, of foreign origin. > Mr. John Emmeluth is an American citizen. Mr. W. E. Castle is a Hawaiian of foreign parentage. Mr. J. A. > McCandless is a citizen of the United States - never having been naturalized here. > > **Six are Hawaiians subjects; five are American citizens; one English, and one German. A majority are foreign subjects.** if will be observed that they sign as “Citizens’ committee of safety.” This is the first time American troops were ever landed on these islands at the instance of a committee of safety without notice to the existing government. It is to be observed that they claim to be a citizens’ committee of safety and that they are not simply applicants for the protection of the property and lives of American citizens. > > My bolding. Nope, no foreign influence there, nosiree. Her Constitution gave her Veto power. Her property was to be made inviolable. She was to appoint everyone, not the PM not the legislature. It basically made her a Monarch on the order of George III. Sure, but of those five listed as “American Citizens” four were also naturalized Hawaiian Citizens. I am unable to find out about the others. Note how racist it is "Mr. L. A. Thurston is a native-born subject of the Hawaiian Islands, _of foreign origin."_ His parents were born there, too. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/70 "2016-08-30T01:34:48Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where does “strength” for a nation come from if not military dominance? That’s certainly been the historical measure of “strong” nations, wouldn’t you agree? I had originally posted, “Strength is itself a transitory vanity.” Then I thought briefly about strength in nature, and changed it to, “Strength through military dominance is itself a transitory vanity.” That apparently allowed the point to be completely lost. How about, “Human strength is a transitory vanity”? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/71 "2016-08-30T01:41:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yeah, look at the Romans. Two thousand years in power and then they suddenly lost it all. The same could happen here in America. Right this moment, we might only have seventeen centuries left. Two thousand years by what twisted measure? Anyway, politically, Rome was often divided, and the empire eventually tore itself part. Just because you were Emperor and/or Pontiff one day didn’t mean you wouldn’t be displaced in a month. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/72 "2016-08-30T03:20:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yeah, look at the Romans. Two thousand years in power and then they suddenly lost it all. The same could happen here in America. Right this moment, we might only have seventeen centuries left. The Roman republic lasted far less than that. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/73 "2016-08-30T04:34:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. The Queen unilaterally abrogated the democratic Constitution, trying to put in place a near absolute monarchy with race based requirements for citizenship, the Taboo system, etc. She was overthrown by men who were born in the islands, of parents who were born in the Island, men who had been helping run the government. > > A small contingent of them removed the upstart Queen, with much support from the people and absolutely no opposition from anyone, not a single “native” raised a hand to stop them. They walked in. One policeman was shot, apparently mostly by accident. > > No US troops took part in this. A small contingent was landed, some 150 men, to keep the peace. They didnt fire a shot, they didnt occupy any buildings. > > Five years after the Republic of Hawaii,\* in which Polynesians had a two-thirds majority voting block in the House, \*asked the USA to annex Hawaii. The vote was unanimous. Note again- the Assembly was 2/3rd Polynesians. The Natives wanted to be part of the uSA. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > You have mentioned before that you keep trying to change the Wikipedia entry to this and that it keeps getting changed back. The reason it keeps getting changed back is because your belief in this regard is utter nonsense. > [@DrDeth](#): > > At no time have I mentioned that nor have I done so. > > The history stands. Your last sentence in [this post of yours](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19392542&postcount=73) says you did try to edit the Wikipedia article. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/74 "2016-08-30T06:47:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know that the Pinochet dictatorship really ranks up there with the “biggest mistakes the US has ever made”. I’d imagine things like Hiroshima, the Japanese internment, something about how we treated the Indians, maybe Vietnam, or Iraq II are a good order of magnitude ahead of it. A lot of those you’d find someone to agree with you, but many will disagree that Hiroshima was a complete mistake no matter what their political persuasion is. It is often considered the least worst of many bad choices. > [@foolsguinea](#): > > Two thousand years by what twisted measure? Anyway, politically, Rome was often divided, and the empire eventually tore itself part. Just because you were Emperor and/or Pontiff one day didn’t mean you wouldn’t be displaced in a month. “Roman civilization” existed for over 2200 years. Granted it went from kingdom to republic to empire to geographically distant empire 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/75 "2016-08-30T07:26:06Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > A lot of those you’d find someone to agree with you, but many will disagree that Hiroshima was a complete mistake no matter what their political persuasion is. It is often considered the least worst of many bad choices. That’s actually my own opinion about Hiroshima: least bad of many bad choices, but that’s really a side note to my main point that, to the extent we supported or condoned the coup in Chile, it probably wasn’t even in the top 10 list of “stupid / bad things done by the USA”. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/76 "2016-08-30T07:40:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > While you’re presenting us with that arithmetic, did you read your own cite? :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Next you’ll be saying that Poland is part of the American empire because Poles want more American troops there to defend against Russia. Remind me again, when was Poland previously an American colony? That the Philippines asked for American troops isn’t an argument against Imperialism - the Britons asked for Roman troops against the Picts, the Gauls asked for Roman troops against the Germans… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/77 "2016-08-30T07:42:04Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where does “strength” for a nation come from if not military dominance? That’s certainly been the historical measure of “strong” nations, wouldn’t you agree? Economic dominance. Cultural dominance. Equally valid measures. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/78 "2016-08-30T08:06:00Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Gosh, I’m really worried about those large-scale colonies on Antarctic soil, dispossessing the native peoples and destroying their civilization. Plus he forgot that time our Conquistanauts planted our flag and our claim on the Moon. The natives never had a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/79 "2016-08-30T10:49:16Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Her Constitution gave her Veto power. Did it, now? 1887 Constitution: Every Bill which shall have passed the Legislature, shall, before it becomes law, be presented to the King. If he approve he shall sign it and it shall thereby become law, but, if not, he shall return it, with his objections, to the Legislature, which shall enter the objections at large on their journal and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration it shall be approved by a two-third vote of all the elective members of the Legislature it shall become a law. 1893 Constitution: The Queen shall signify her approval of any bill or resolution which shall have passed the legislative assembly by signing the same. If she approve not, she shall return it with her objections to the legislative assembly, which shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If, after such reconsideration, it shall be approved by a two-thirds vote of all the members of the legislative assembly, it shall be presented again to the Queen, and she shall sign it, and it shall therefore be a law. > [@](#): > > Her property was to be made inviolable. She was to appoint everyone, not the PM not the legislature. It basically made her a Monarch on the order of George III. Like I said, it was the Constitution of a constitutional monarchy. Is that idea inherently “bonkers”, especially circa 1893? Note this change, as well: 1887 Constitution: Every male resident of the Hawaiian Islands of Hawaiian, American or European birth or descent, who shall have attained the age of twenty years, and shall have paid his taxes, and shall have caused his name to be entered on the list of voters for Nobles for his District, shall be an elector of Nobles, and shall be entitled to vote at any election of Nobles, provided… That he shall own and be possessed, in his own right, of taxable property in this country of the value of not less than three thousand dollars over and above all encumbrances, or shall have actually received an income of not less than **six hundred dollars** during the year next preceding his registration for such election; 1893 Constitution: Every male subject of the Kingdom who shall have paid his taxes, who shall have attained the age of twenty years, and shall have been domiciled in the Kingdom for one year immediately preceding the election, and be possessed of real property in the Kingdom, to the value over and above all incumbrances of one hundred and fifty dollars, or a leasehold property on which the rent is twenty-five dollars per year, or of an income of not less than **seventy-five dollars per year** , derived from any property or some lawful employment As you see, the “George III” style Constitution actually lowered the bar to voting. > [@](#): > > Sure, but of those five listed as “American Citizens” four were also naturalized Hawaiian Citizens. I am unable to find out about the others. They remain foreign nationals. > [@](#): > > Note how racist it is "Mr. L. A. Thurston is a native-born subject of the Hawaiian Islands, _of foreign origin."_ His parents were born there, too. Shrug. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286/80 "2016-08-30T11:13:20Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > :rolleyes:Remind me again, when was Poland previously an American colony? > That the Philippines asked for American troops isn’t an argument against Imperialism - the Britons asked for Roman troops against the Picts, the Gauls asked for Roman troops against the Germans… When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-end-american-imperialism/764286.md?page=5)