# How do we feel about teachers fired for posting homemade porn? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614 "2023-12-14T20:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 39
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/761 "2024-02-29T15:14:17Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My default position is that a community’s moral standards should not be disturbed. Schools are uniquely positioned to disturb a community’s moral standards, from which arises the unusual obligation to conform to said standards. Furthermore, schools serve the community’s interests (n.b. not _only_ the community’s interests, also state and federal interests). It is not in a community’s interest to defy its own morals, by definition. Then why are politicians not held to the same standard? Everything you are arguing about schools and teachers also applies to them. > [@Max\_S](#): > > I’m of the weak opinion that the law shouldn’t give special protection to teachers who moonlight as adult entertainers. I am of the strong opinion that until such time as the law provides special protection, No one is asking for special protections. All we are saying is that teachers should not be held to different standards in their private (off-hours) life than any other professional, especially based on someone’s arbitrary moral code. > [@Mk\_VII](#): > > Employment law here allows companies to fire employees for ‘behaviour likely to bring the company into disrepute’, whether on or off the clock. I would be surprised if that was not the case in this instance also. That’s the point. Is the Walmart warehouse manager going to be fired for doing OF porn? More like if she were, everyone would be up in arms for Walmart daring to regulate what she does in her private life. > [@Max\_S](#): > > schools should fire teachers who moonlight as adult entertainers… if that circumstance actually or forseeably impairs his or her ability to teach students. But it does not impair their ability. I don’t think any teacher (those that actually have experience with students in school) in this thread agrees that it will, so that should tell you something. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/762 "2024-02-29T15:23:20Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My default position is that a community’s moral standards should not be disturbed. So you’re ok with schools teaching students to be homophobic and hating non-Christians and a dozen other ways of being intolerant? > [@DSeid](#): > > Why should a very specific set of moral standards that reflect anxieties regarding sexuality and its expression be as a fragile house of cards at the cost of stomping on other moral standards regarding the freedoms of individuals? Because they are **MY** moral standards. Other people’s beliefs don’t count. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/763 "2024-02-29T19:52:46Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But it does not impair their ability. I don’t think any teacher (those that actually have experience with students in school) in this thread agrees that it will, so that should tell you something. You could argue that a high school teacher caught doing videos might run into some issues in the classroom, but a kindergarten teacher? Hardly. It’s the parents who’ll have a problem and/or judge based on the moonlighting work. The kids have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/764 "2024-02-29T19:54:35Z")
> [@bump](#): > > You could argue that a high school teacher caught doing videos might run into some issues in the classroom, For maybe 48 hours then the kids move on. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/765 "2024-02-29T20:29:26Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > My default position is that a community’s moral standards should not be disturbed. Putting the moral weight on the “community” rather than on the individual is both unreasonable and one of the bases for fascist ideology. The community doesn’t have a moral standard: moral standards adhere to human beings, not to granfalloons. Let’s try to let people use their own moral standard as long as they’re not hurting anyone else, and that’ll be a lot less disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/766 "2024-02-29T23:50:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > there are often competing “moral standards” I admit not having thought extensively about it - but you haven’t convinced me I’m wrong yet. A competition must be held and implies a measurable outcome. In this case, the competition is held by the school board itself, among its members, and the results are measured by its votes. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/767 "2024-02-29T23:53:39Z")
Right i[quote=“Saint\_Cad, post:764, topic:994614, full:true”] > [@bump](#): > > You could argue that a high school teacher caught doing videos might run into some issues in the classroom, For maybe 48 hours then the kids move on. [/quote] I dare say a few will move right into spicy teach patron subscriptions. No problemo eh? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/768 "2024-02-29T23:54:59Z")
There are just so many people who innocuous existence is deemed “immoral,” or has been historically. Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, for example, or Roma (stereotyped as being inherently dishonest / prone to lies and theft). The community’s morality has so many examples of being more to protect the in-group than based on anything actually resembling moral principles. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/769 "2024-02-29T23:57:42Z")
I’ve no particular interest in convincing you of anything. I do want to fully understand your rationale. So the initial question remains: why is avoiding any disruption of whatever “moral standard” wins the competition by whatever measure, as measured by the choice a board makes in response to the voices heard, a default position over other other potential goods and possible other moral imperatives? To me doing the right thing, if I was confident of what that right thing is, is the default position. An individual community’s standards can be very far off from that, and historically often have been. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/770 "2024-03-01T00:18:36Z")
Because that’s how democracy works. There’s an election, the one who gets the most votes is elected, the person who is elected gets to implement his or her policies. If elected officials don’t represent, in some way, the overall view of the community, that means there’s a problem in the electoral process. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/771 "2024-03-01T00:36:19Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Because that’s how democracy works No it is not. Democracy does not mean that a majority gets to do, let alone is justified in doing, whatever it likes. No is “democracy” the end all of moral and ethical rectitude. As “default” the avoidance of disruption of what the majority feels is their moral standard would justify many horrific policies through history and in the world today. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/772 "2024-03-01T00:52:36Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > 2.5 decades teaching middle and high school and students **in my experience students just do not perseverate on things like** that. Yes, for a day or two it may be, “I saw Miss Krabapple’s titties.” but after that they are on to something else. Certainly no refusal to do work because of **a lack of respect because they did porn**. I think lasting lack of respect is plausible and forseeable is not directly due to the student knowing the teacher did porn. It’s because of parents who actively set the student against his or her teacher. You’re looking for anecdotal evidence. This was a real-life incident cited earlier, though note the teacher was not allowed back in the classroom (obviously) after the rumors were confirmed. And a big part of why she was fired was for being dishonest. Nevertheless, it is probably the closest you will ever get to evidence either for and against the proposition that the teacher’s past in porn negatively affects students’ educations, starting at paragraph 96(h): [https://crypticphilosopher.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/120680877-Stacie-Halas-decision.pdf#page=30](https://crypticphilosopher.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/120680877-Stacie-Halas-decision.pdf#page=30) I think the strongest evidence for my point of view is from paragraph 96(i)(1) on p. 32, > Ms. Raskin, Ms. Amendola and Ms. Martinez recalled disruption in > their classrooms for the remainder of the 2011/2012 school year following the confirmed > rumors and subsequent media involvement. Ms. Raskin recalled several students making > comments and asking questions about Respondent, and also recalled instructing students to > avoid speaking with the media. Ms. Amendola recalled having difficulty keeping students > focused on the curriculum because they kept asking questions about Respondent and > laughing and referring to her as “Tiffany.” Ms. Amendola testified that the video made > Respondent look “inappropriate” and “like a bad person” to her. According to Ms. Martinez, > the topic of Respondent’s pornography and her alias, “Tiffany,” was brought up in all of her > classes. She recalled a student asking why Respondent would “allow those guys to do that,” > and several students asking if Ms. Martinez had ever made such videos and if pornography > was “okay to do.” The teachers did their best to redirect the students’ attention to the > curriculum. As the year progressed, the students did begin to settle down. Yes, as the year progressed the students settled down. Things would have been more disruptive, in my opinion, if the circumstances had been different. Such as if Ms. Halas had returned to the classroom, and continued teaching incoming classes the next school year. Or if a state law prohibited teachers from discussing sexual orientation. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/773 "2024-03-01T01:20:28Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Then why are politicians not held to the same standard? What exactly do you have in mind? There is a legal fiction that a politician, in official capacity, represents his or her constituency’s interests, including moral interests. For a politician to act in official capacity contrary to the moral interests of his or her constituents is, therefore, a contradiction. Or at least it is presumed to be a contradiction, for the sake of practicality. > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > All we are saying is that teachers should not be held to different standards in their private (off-hours) life than any other professional If you grant my premises for the sake of argument, you would see that this is not itself counter to my position. Think about why politicians are prohibited from insider trading, or in most cases, from holding state and local offices simultaneously. I advocate the same standard, based on the premise (which you dispute) that a teacher’s history in porn can forseeably disrupt students’ educations. Take away that premise and of course, my argument fails. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/774 "2024-03-01T01:24:43Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > There are just so many people who innocuous existence is deemed “immoral,” or has been historically. Jews in pre-Holocaust Europe, for example, or Roma (stereotyped as being inherently dishonest / prone to lies and theft). > [@DSeid](#): > > As “default” the avoidance of disruption of what the majority feels is their moral standard would justify many horrific policies through history and in the world today. Admittedly. That’s why I agree that non-discrimination statutes override any consideration for community moral standards. Nationality, race, color, sex, and religion are protected by law, community morals be damned. However, posting homemade porn (or acting in professional porn) is not specially protected. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/775 "2024-03-01T02:15:48Z")
Indeed. I’m definitely not saying the community is always right. Far from it. What I am saying is that the wishes of the community should be respected, whether right or wrong. The only alternative is autocracy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/776 "2024-03-01T02:23:08Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > What I am saying is that the wishes of the community should be respected, whether right or wrong. The only alternative is autocracy. Excluded middle much? One alternative is a system in which _in general_ the community standards make the rules, _while having specific uber-rules that protect the rights of the individual from the masses._ Y’know, like the system we (mostly) all live in. As near as I can tell, you’re saying Ruby Bridges was wrong and should never have been allowed in that building. Am I misunderstanding your principle? ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/777 "2024-03-02T02:40:38Z")
Have none of you people seen the music video for Van Halen’s Hot For Teacher? Those kids looked plenty distracted. Just sayin. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/778 "2024-03-02T02:54:49Z")
Music video? I thought it was a reality show. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/779 "2024-03-02T02:56:00Z")
But that happened IN the classroom. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/780 "2024-03-02T14:45:38Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > As near as I can tell, you’re saying Ruby Bridges was wrong and should never have been allowed in that building. Am I misunderstanding your principle? Quite deliberately your misunderstanding knows no bounds. You are comparing the civil rights of a young Black child to the desires of a school teacher who wants to pick up a moonlighting gig producing explicit sexual content for sale to the public. It’s not private, it’s on the internet. How far are you willing to go to protect his /her right to create pornography while an employee of your school district? Advertising on their vehicle, soliciting other teachers for content, reaching out to parents inviting them to join his/her spicy online life? Maybe sex positivity will be introduced as curriculum and OF the conduit. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614.md?page=38) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614.md?page=40)