# How do we feel about teachers fired for posting homemade porn? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 14, 2023, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614 "2023-12-14T20:21:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/141 "2023-12-15T16:24:08Z")
I’d hope the instructor has some philosophy training. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/142 "2023-12-15T16:26:32Z")
Although in Ethics there is the concept of reciprocity, aka a “reach-around.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/143 "2023-12-15T17:02:21Z")
I suppose I was assuming “values” = “moral values.” We certainly hire ethics teachers to teach values… and math teachers when it comes down to that! I also acknowledge **Wolfpup’s** point that such values clauses do exist in the contracts. A quick googling says that morality clauses are, indeed, enforceable, but I’ll just sit here in my curmudgeon’s corner and rail against them. To be clear, this is not to support poor character. Certainly engaging in illegal activity is right out. It’s just that these “morals” are often a lot more subjective than people think: what does “basic secular moral character” entail beyond not breaking laws and not promoting hatred? Is drinking to excess okay? Smoking? Open relationships? Poor fashion choices? Excess weight? Wearing the hijab? Slippery slope arguments aren’t sound, I know, but vague phrases are subject to too many interpretations to be useful. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/144 "2023-12-15T17:03:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > some teachers are literally prostituting themselves Not prostitutes, not bank robbers, not pedophiles. Stop making this about stuff it isn’t. Your purile is hanging out and it’s not a good look. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/145 "2023-12-15T17:04:43Z")
> [@The\_Librarian](#): > > Your purile is hanging out and it’s not a good look. **Moderating** Don’t attack other posters. That is clearly an attack. [Prior Modnote also with same reminder](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/120). ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/146 "2023-12-15T17:22:57Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > we have a topic here were our community is split. Perhaps we need a poll. Oh no, that’ll just lead to dancing… ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/147 "2023-12-15T17:26:24Z")
How would we feel if these teachers had been men? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/148 "2023-12-15T17:28:41Z")
No difference here. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/149 "2023-12-15T17:44:02Z")
(Starts at 1:50 in the linked video) [Kootenai County, Idaho GOP Committee ad,](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JyVZX0fAixY) accusing school librarians of “grooming.” Hilariously bad, unless you consider how dangerous. [Eat da poo poo](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QUHkQ9vP_lA) Ugandan preacher, memed a few years ago, including on Colbert. Silly until we read of the murders of homosexuals in Africa. We love you guys and we’re your message board friends, so as a friend I have to ask you to look at the bigger question. I see how, realistically, pornstar teachers can be conflict too difficult to navigate, so sure, just write a policy against it and toss them out. But you can’t “policy” away someone’s civil rights. And what’s “realistic” is always corrupted by irrationality. The videos above are the irrational extremes of the side you’ve chosen. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/150 "2023-12-15T18:04:37Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > … these “morals” are often a lot more subjective than people think: what does “basic secular moral character” entail beyond not breaking laws and not promoting hatred? Sometimes, yes, they’re subjective, though things like basic honesty and integrity and fairness are fairly objective expectations. But when you have someone in a position of trust and authority who is expected to be a mentor and role model to our kids, I would say that conformance with basic societal norms is a reasonable expectation. And that selling sex videos featuring yourself falls well outside reasonable expectations of normative behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/151 "2023-12-15T18:16:12Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > But when you have someone in a position of trust and authority who is expected to be a mentor and role model to our kids, I would say that conformance with basic societal norms is a reasonable expectation. And that selling sex videos featuring yourself falls well outside reasonable expectations of normative behaviour. I couldn’t disagree more. Teachers are people. They should do their job professionally and have the same rights after work as the rest of us. As I acknowledge earlier, I’m willing to draw some lines where I think they should not be teaching our children, but legal porn activities is inside the line as I see it. (_as I would like to see it_, is probably a better way to phrase it. I acknowledge that in the current US climate, a teacher is risking his or her job by posting porn online) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/152 "2023-12-15T18:34:49Z")
Okay, but “basic honesty and integrity and fairness” seem to me to be professionalism rather than values / secular moral character; I would, of course, expect ANY employed adult to exhibit these traits. I mean, they are moral values too, but in context, they seem more a part of the standards of conduct for the profession. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/153 "2023-12-15T18:47:54Z")
Honesty? No, they were sneaking around making ugly little videos for money. Hiding their identity. Integrity? No, there’s no integrity in the porn business. Fair? No, they were not fair to their students, parents, co-workers or school system. And turns out, not fair to themselves. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/154 "2023-12-15T18:49:23Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > A teacher who expressed good character, forethought, maturity enough to teach teenagers should also _know_ if you post online porn, it will be found. Some one will. You can’t stop it. You can’t hope it away. We have no way to know this. We are talking about this teacher, because this teacher got caught. I think it would be naive to think that she was the first and only teacher to use OnlyFans. There are over 3 million OnlyFans creators. Again there is no data on this, but I would be shocked to find out this was the first one. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/155 "2023-12-15T18:50:38Z")
I wouldn’t take the chance. It was foolish to do so. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/156 "2023-12-15T18:53:47Z")
People are allowed to take different risks. Also, it’s only foolish if we assume it’s wrong. There seems to be a pretty divided opinion on that question. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/157 "2023-12-15T18:54:43Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > legal porn activities is inside the line as I see it. Some questions to ask yourself, then: - Given that a teacher’s authority and influence is both formal (by virtue of his or her position) and informal (by virtue of earned respect), how do you think a sideline making porn videos, if known to the students, would affect that second important underpinning of a teacher’s function – the ability to influence students from a position of respect? - Should everything in a prospective teacher’s background be acceptable, just as long as it wasn’t illegal, or on record as a criminal conviction? - Applying the philosophical logic of Kant’s categorical imperative, what sort of society would we have if all teachers routinely made sex videos? Putting aside the temptation to joke about it, think about it in terms of the essential teacher-student relationship and the long term downstream effects on all of society. - If a teacher is willing to violate societal norms in this regard, what other norms are they also willing to violate, and how does that impact their dialog, influence, and relationship with our children? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/158 "2023-12-15T18:59:58Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > Honesty? No, they were sneaking around making ugly little videos for money. Hiding their identity. > > Integrity? No, there’s no integrity in the porn business. > > Fair? No, they were not fair to their students, parents, co-workers or school system. And turns out, not fair to themselves. These are not good arguments. “There’s no integrity in the porn business.” Is that even true? “They were not fair to their students.” What? Their students are not involved, and if they see the videos and judge someone based on that, well, they’re the ones being unfair. If a teacher needs to behave as a teacher 24/7, we need to pay them 24/7. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/159 "2023-12-15T19:01:01Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > If a teacher is willing to violate societal norms in this regard, what other norms are they also willing to violate, This is not a logically sound proposition. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614/160 "2023-12-15T19:01:56Z")
It was foolish because it cost them their employment. They can sue, fight, protest all they want. They will never teach in the US again. And…they caused it themselves by making a _foolish_ choice. So much for paying off those student loans for a profession they’ll never practice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-feel-about-teachers-fired-for-posting-homemade-porn/994614.md?page=9)