# How do we stop out of state money from influencing local elections? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 8, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967 "2016-10-08T19:11:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/1 "2016-10-08T19:11:05Z")
I live in Maine, and this is a big problem here. Millions of dollars from out of state are being spent on ads in the congressional race in CD2, as well as on opposing our ballot initiatives. Why should someone with no involvement in a state have a say in the elections there? I think this needs to be controlled. Out of state money is even changing the course of municipal elections here. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/2 "2016-10-08T20:15:10Z")
People spend money on politics that effect them. Since Congress crittershave a national effect I’m not surprised that you’re seeing spending from all over. With ballot measures how do you define local? For instance out in California the drug manufacturers are spending a bunch of money to fight lowering drug costs through Medical. This is an issue that effects them directly and I don’t have a problem with the spending to fight it. Your going to have to convince me that people spending money in their own interest should be banned just because they aren’t allowed to vote in their own interest. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/3 "2016-10-08T20:25:49Z")
Do mayors of cities with populations around 10-15k have a national effect? Their campaigns seem to attract a lot of out of state money here in Maine. Btw, most mayors in Maine have ceremonial, not executive posts. The unelected town managers really run things. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/4 "2016-10-08T20:31:24Z")
Practical reality, for laws and policies to stick we would need to amend the constitution and modify the 1st amendments freedom of speech and association. While I am sure that there will be some very passionate appeals on this thread, the risks of getting this wrong are huge. Any change my risk the rights of people to form an expressive organization of individuals that engages in public or private speech. Now matter if said organization takes take a corporate form. As an example, this form of out of state action by corporate entities was crucial to the civil rights movement. > **[NAACP v. Alabama](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAACP_v._Alabama)** > > National Association for the Advancement of Colored People v. Alabama, 357 U.S. 449 (1958), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court. Alabama sought to prevent the NAACP from conducting further business in the state. After the circuit court issued a restraining order, the state issued a subpoena for various records, including the NAACP's membership lists. The Supreme Court ruled that Alabama's demand for the lists had violated the right of due process guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendme... IMHO the most viable option would be a way to get communities more interested and involved in local politics. I don’t see that happening. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/5 "2016-10-08T21:43:48Z")
I don’t see the basis for a legal challenge, but I suppose you could contact local advertisers (the people who run the local TV and radio stations, who put up billboards, who run print ads, etc.) and tell them that because they’re taking out-of-state money, you’ll make a point of noting who their _local_ sponsors are the rest of the year and will avoid those business while telling them why. Related, find out which local advertisers, if any, _don’t_ run political material and make a point of finding out who their customers are and patronize them, while telling them why. Basically, beyond threatening to make your displeasure known through the use of your own economic power, I’m not sure what you can do, or indeed if there’s anything you _should_ be able to do. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [October 8, 2016, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/6 "2016-10-08T23:44:45Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > Do mayors of cities with populations around 10-15k have a national effect? Their campaigns seem to attract a lot of out of state money here in Maine. Btw, most mayors in Maine have ceremonial, not executive posts. The unelected town managers really run things. So you’ve got people from out of state spending money in Maine to elect a ceremonial position a day you’re upset? I mean I get where you’d think they were insane but aside from that they are pouring money into your coffers for something that doesn’t effect you. Seems like a net win for Maine. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/7 "2016-10-09T00:02:52Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > So you’ve got people from out of state spending money in Maine to elect a ceremonial position a day you’re upset? I mean I get where you’d think they were insane but aside from that they are pouring money into your coffers for something that doesn’t effect you. Seems like a net win for Maine. I was using the mayoral elections as an example to show how far the out of state special interests have gone. Millions of dollars are going into election races across the state from these groups. I am most concerned about their meddling in the referendums. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/8 "2016-10-09T00:03:43Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I live in Maine, and this is a big problem here. Millions of dollars from out of state are being spent on ads in the congressional race in CD2, as well as on opposing our ballot initiatives. Why should someone with no involvement in a state have a say in the elections there? I think this needs to be controlled. Out of state money is even changing the course of municipal elections here. It’s called the First Amendment, for a good reason. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/9 "2016-10-09T00:20:17Z")
Also note that CD2 in your state is very important for the national election. Plus you have to ballot initiatives that are dealing with national trends and also fears. [http://maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/upcoming/](http://maine.gov/sos/cec/elec/upcoming/) > [@](#): > > Do you want to allow the possession and use of marijuana under state law by persons who are at least 21 years of age, and allow the cultivation, manufacture, distribution, testing, and sale of marijuana and marijuana products subject to state regulation, taxation and local ordinance? That one has several groups interested, from people to looking to make a lot of money to people whom are activists on both sides. > [@](#): > > Do you want to require background checks prior to the sale or transfer of firearms between individuals not licensed as firearms dealers, with failure to do so punishable by law, and with some exceptions for family members, hunting, self-defense, lawful competitions, and shooting range activity? Gun laws always bring in a lot of external interest and this one also attracts a group that fears that it will be extended to other forms of private item sales. As you didn’t say what local race was attracting attention, I have no idea. But as you have a contested district in a national race and ballot initiatives which are both related to trends in national politics I would point out that this money isn’t really to influence just Maine, but because what happens there may effect the entire country. If you live to a stable voting state with boring initiatives you will also probably feel a bit neglected and ignored. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/10 "2016-10-09T00:45:16Z")
The money might not actually be targeted at the ballot items you think it’s targeted at. For instance, suppose you’re working on Clinton’s campaign team. You know that Maine (or at least, parts of it, with the EV splitting) is a battleground this cycle, so you want to put resources into winning there. You also know that marijuana users mostly favor Clinton over Trump, but that a lot of them don’t usually vote. But if you can get them to the ballot booth to vote on the marijuana initiative, then they’re likely to vote for Clinton while they’re there. So you funnel money into the state in favor of the marijuana initiative. You don’t actually care much whether the initiative itself passes (that’s a local issue that doesn’t affect you much), but you _do_ care whether Clinton is elected. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/11 "2016-10-09T00:50:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t see the basis for a legal challenge, but I suppose you could contact local advertisers (the people who run the local TV and radio stations … Note that broadcasters have a legal obligation to accept advertising from the public, with very few exceptions. Especially political advertising – they can’t show ads only from one side, or charge different prices to different sides. Any of that kind of thing could cause them to lose their broadcasting license, thus putting them out of business. Even newspapers, which are not subject to these rules, still generally accept advertising from both sides. ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/12 "2016-10-09T01:01:17Z")
I should mention, a big part of why I supported Bernie Sanders is that he wanted to get big money out of politics. He mainly talked about it at the federal level, but it is a big problem everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/13 "2016-10-09T01:05:56Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I should mention, a big part of why I supported Bernie Sanders is that he wanted to get big money out of politics. He mainly talked about it at the federal level, but it is a big problem everywhere. Are you in favor of repealing the First Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/14 "2016-10-09T01:20:31Z")
No. The first amendment is very important. We have limits on how much an individual can give to a political campaign, and those have been found constitutional. I would also apply similar limits to corporations. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/15 "2016-10-09T01:26:54Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > No. The first amendment is very important. We have limits on how much an individual can give to a political campaign, and those have been found constitutional. I would also apply similar limits to corporations. As an individual you can spend as much money as you want to to buy ads or create fliers, the “freedom of the press” is not a protection for an industry, it is the right to publish for all individuals. Organizations also are limited in the money they can contribute directly to a campaign. > **[Archive of contribution limits - FEC.gov](https://www.fec.gov/help-candidates-and-committees/candidate-taking-receipts/archived-contribution-limits/)** > > An archive of contribution limits that applied to contributions made to House, Senate and presidential candidates, political action committees and party committees in connection with federal elections for each election cycle, from 1976-2002, and then... ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/16 "2016-10-09T01:30:49Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I was using the mayoral elections as an example to show how far the out of state special interests have gone. Millions of dollars are going into election races across the state from these groups. > I am most concerned about their meddling in the referendums. When northerners sent money and people into the South to help elect politicians who would repeal Jim Crow abuses, that was also meddling from out of state, yes? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/17 "2016-10-09T01:32:47Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > No. The first amendment is very important. We have limits on how much an individual can give to a political campaign, and those have been found constitutional. I would also apply similar limits to corporations. Would you also limit how much money a corporation could spend printing information that helped a candidate over another one? Or are you just planning to limit direct contributions? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/18 "2016-10-09T02:06:20Z")
I can’t see how such a ban could work effectively, anyway. Say one is enacted. So you find some Maine citizen to set up an organization ‘Mainers against Solar Panels’. Then, besides donations from some Maine citizens, national oil companies & electric companies donate big bucks to that Maine organization, which then runs ads in Maine. And they’ve ‘laundered’ their out-of-state money to work in your local elections. So you tighten the law to deal with this. Then John Smith, an investor living in Maine, donates to ‘Mainers against Solar Panels’. But he gets much of his income from dividends on his Exxon Oil stocks. That’s “out-of-state” money coming into the state, and being used to influence elections. So is John Smith prohibited from making political contributions in his state of Maine? (To say nothing of the paperwork & investigators to keep track of this.) I can’t see this working, even if the Courts would allow it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/19 "2016-10-09T02:14:22Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > I live in Maine, and this is a big problem here. Millions of dollars from out of state are being spent on ads in the congressional race in CD2, as well as on opposing our ballot initiatives. Why should someone with no involvement in a state have a say in the elections there? I think this needs to be controlled. Out of state money is even changing the course of municipal elections here. So Mississippi could censor The NY Times and MSNBC? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967/20 "2016-10-09T04:07:18Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I can’t see how such a ban could work effectively, anyway. . . . Exactly. There are too many work-arounds, too easily contrived. Here in California, a newspaper editor I know personally told me of how he received perfectly legal advertising payments (in excess of his usual ad rates) from prominent local businessmen, as a secret (and illegal) quid pro quo for writing favorable editorials and even “news” articles, promoting a local candidate for office. It is just that easy to get around campaign finance laws. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-we-stop-out-of-state-money-from-influencing-local-elections/767967.md?page=2)