# How do women in poverty become obese? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 12, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123 "2017-07-12T20:14:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/142 "2017-07-14T17:18:39Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > No. My comment was more about people who would start at soda and then say you can’t eat steak, you have to eat spam if you want meat. Or no seafood, but pressed lunchmeat is great, and so on. There are a lot of those people. Sort of the same who support the expired bologna and stale bread for prisoners things and consider EBT recipients the same class as prisoners. Well, those people are morons 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/143 "2017-07-14T17:44:28Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Yeah, it’s pretty ridiculous. I’ve never seen stores do the “move to cold case” trick that’s a pretty good idea. My store does that. Never have any problem moving the cold rotisserie chicken, and some folks know exactly when those chickens are moved from hot to cold and snatch them up while they’re still warm but qualify for EBT. Also reduce the cost by a dollar, so they’re even more affordable. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/144 "2017-07-14T17:46:18Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I will agree with everything you said if you can agree that two of the “factors” here are poor decision making and lack of personal responsibility. Yes, but one should no more assume a person is poor due to those factors than one should assume someone is uneducated because they’re wearing jeans and t-shirt. Plenty of middle and upper class people make bad decisions, but they have more of a buffer to recover from those mistakes. But more detail later, I’m on my way out the door to work. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/145 "2017-07-14T18:13:39Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > I don’t think it’s bad; I just don’t know where you draw the line. In my state soda (maybe some other “junk food”, not sure, but I think just soft drinks) is taxed and “food” isn’t. So maybe if a state had the freedom and wanted to administer theirs somewhere along those lines it might make sense. Not sure how the hot food works but that does seem strange. Some stores even chill their hot prepared foods for the purpose of making them available for SNAP and put stickers on it. So, someone can’t buy a bucket of hot chicken but they can pay the same price for it cold. The problem with SNAP is that you can use it to buy any food item with the _exception_ of a short list of certain foods. It should be the opposite, i.e. it should be more like WIC; it should be changed so that all food items are prohibited with the exception of certain food items. These should include generic poultry, beans, eggs, rice, potatoes, etc. No soda, no steak, no seafood, and no processed or frozen foods. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/146 "2017-07-14T18:17:53Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The problem with SNAP is that you can use it to buy any food item with the _exception_ of a short list of certain foods. It should be the opposite, i.e. it should be more like WIC; it should be changed so that all food items are prohibited with the exception of certain food items. These should include generic poultry, beans, eggs, rice, potatoes, etc. No soda, no steak, no seafood, and no processed or frozen foods. This seems unnecessarily cruel. No beef at all? Just hamburger? what if steak is on sale and costs less than hamburger? No frozen foods? There are a lot of low cost meals that are frozen. What about frozen orange juice? That system is just too complicated, and mean actually. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/147 "2017-07-14T18:18:50Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The problem with SNAP is that you can use it to buy any food item with the _exception_ of a short list of certain foods. It should be the opposite, i.e. it should be more like WIC; it should be changed so that all food items are prohibited with the exception of certain food items. These should include generic poultry, beans, eggs, rice, potatoes, etc. No soda, no steak, no seafood, and no processed or frozen foods. what’s wrong with steak? Some cuts are very reasonable. Same with seafood, processed and frozen foods. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/148 "2017-07-14T18:37:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I’d like to see a cite for this, please - what percent of poor people are obese due to untreated medical conditions? Some kind of hard data would be best - not a link to a website of an advocacy group, or “scientists estimate…” > > TIA. > > Regards, > Shodan That’s a great point, Shodan. Unfortunately, there’s no such study. A few studies I have to hand demonstrate some of the issues around cost of medication and its effects on treatment. [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2517964/)is one study that looked at how cost-sharing affects medication adherence. The study states, “Specifically, copayments for generic drugs have increased dramatically over the past 5 years. A large body of literature documents that increases in out-of-pocket costs reduce the likelihood that patients will utilize health care services, including those considered important for management of chronic disease.” Undertreatment and under-identification of medical problems is a problem in the US, and is one of the reasons the country is not at the top of the list for health outcomes. I would say that this is certainly a contributing factor with many obese patients. One example is diabetes. Antidiabetic medications can be quite expensive, and [this](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2629003/)study from 2008 states that 85% of patients fill their prescription for antidiabetic medications. Copays of less than $10 resulted in a first-fill rate of 89%; copays greater than $10 resulted in a 77% fill rate. And those studies are for the insured. For the uninsured, when patients don’t have access or money to treat their medical problems, no one sees these patients until they hit the ER or are admitted to hospital. Would obese poor people be be less obese with a better diet? Probably, but we really don’t know by how much. Maybe not. Obesity is not a simple condition for which to identify causation. Not just CICO, but researchers also look at genetics, medications being taken, gut flora, and even [environmental](https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/conditions/obesity/obesogens/index.cfm)factors. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/149 "2017-07-14T18:38:44Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Yes, but one should no more assume a person is poor due to those factors than one should assume someone is uneducated because they’re wearing jeans and t-shirt. _looks down_ _wearing flip-flops, cutoff jeans, and a t-shirt_ _did statistics for work this morning_ Just helping prove that point. 😉 Back to work myself. More statistics. ---
**Author:** ![GrumpyBunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc8723/32.png) [@GrumpyBunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrumpyBunny)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/150 "2017-07-14T18:45:19Z")
ETA: **Broomstick** : great long post above discussing poverty and food. > [@Surreal](#): > > Pretty silly article. > > > [@](#): > > > > Quote: > > Based on his findings, a 2,000-calorie diet would cost just $3.52 a day if it consisted of junk food, compared with $36.32 a day for a diet of low-energy dense foods. > > Huh? The idea that you’d have to spend $36 per person per day to eat healthily is idiotic. You could easily subside on beans, liver, eggs, frozen vegetables, potatoes, oats, etc. for just a few dollars a day. And none of these items require special cooking skills. Agreed. Was the guy buying out-of-season avocados and kiwi at Whole Foods? Pre-cut veggies and fruit? Without a shopping list of what he bought, it’s a useless article. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/151 "2017-07-14T18:46:36Z")
> [@GrumpyBunny](#): > > _looks down_ > > _wearing flip-flops, cutoff jeans, and a t-shirt_ > > _did statistics for work this morning_ > > Just helping prove that point. 😉 > > Back to work myself. More statistics. She said “jeans” not “cutoff jeans” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/152 "2017-07-14T18:48:17Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Pretty silly article. > > Huh? The idea that you’d have to spend $36 per person per day to eat healthily is idiotic. You could easily subside on beans, liver, eggs, frozen vegetables, potatoes, oats, etc. for just a few dollars a day. And none of these items require special cooking skills. Yes, you cant get much cheaper than beans & rice. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/153 "2017-07-14T19:31:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not many are. My dad was a teacher (with a MA no less) at LAUSD and still my Mom worked FT at Savon- and there was just the three of us. Nonsense. The salary range for teachers in LAUSD ranges from $53-$71K. Plus your Mom’s income. That’s more than enough to support a family of three. And it’s nowhere near poor. > **[Public School Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com](https://www1.salary.com/CA/Los-Angeles/Public-School-Teacher-salary.html)** > > What is the average salary for a Public School Teacher in Los Angeles, CA? Search by income level, experience, and education. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/154 "2017-07-14T19:34:14Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nonsense. The salary range for teachers in LAUSD ranges from $53-$71K. Plus your Mom’s income. That’s more than enough to support a family of three. And it’s nowhere near poor. > > [Public School Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com](http://www1.salary.com/CA/Los-Angeles/Public-School-Teacher-salary.html) Have you considered the fact that \*\*DrDeth \*\*may have been speaking about some time in the past, when salaries weren’t so high? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/155 "2017-07-14T19:41:19Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Nonsense. The salary range for teachers in LAUSD ranges from $53-$71K. Plus your Mom’s income. That’s more than enough to support a family of three. And it’s nowhere near poor. > > [Public School Teacher Salary in Los Angeles, CA | Salary.com](http://www1.salary.com/CA/Los-Angeles/Public-School-Teacher-salary.html) In the 1950’s? My Dad was making under $5K.yr, which translates to about $35K now. Back then teachers really were underpaid. > **[Estimated average annual salary of teachers in public elementary and...](https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_078.asp)** > > The primary purpose of the Digest of Education Statistics is to provide a compilation of statistical information covering the broad field of American education from prekindergarten through graduate school. The Digest includes a selection of data from... ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/156 "2017-07-14T19:51:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In the 1950’s? My Dad was making under $5K.yr, which translates to about $35K now. Back then teachers really were underpaid. And $35K is well above the poverty line for a family of three, which is around $20K. > **[Federal Poverty Guidelines - Families Usa](https://familiesusa.org/resources/federal-poverty-guidelines/)** > > The 2018 federal poverty guidelines have been released. The 2017 guidelines are also provided below for reference. Federal poverty levels are used to determine eligibility for certain federal health programs,... ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/157 "2017-07-14T20:55:29Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Does that apply to ALL poor people? Of course not. But that is _part_ of the problem. > > Again, stop conflating “some” with “all”. SOME poor people do not have access to healthy food, SOME poor people (me, for example) will eat healthier if they have access to better food. That still leaves SOME poor people who won’t touch a vegetable even if you held a gun to their head. Just snipping what I think is fair to say is the typical logic in your responses, and it’s just not very strong IMO. Everyone knows _some_ poor people work a lot of hours, etc. But if one is looking for a reason a greater proportion of poor people are obese than non-poor people, which is generally true in the US\*, then we’re looking for factors which are more true of poor people in general, which perhaps might be casual. Or not, but we’re not looking for things _less_ likely to be true of poor people to explain in general something that’s _more_ true of poor people. A greater proportion of poor Americans are fat than better off Americans\*, a lower proportion of poor Americans than better off Americans work fulltime+ hours. So no, long work hours, is not ‘part’ of the explanation for the relative phenomenon we’re trying to explain, unless long hours lead to _less_ obesity. And again I think the problem is counter-moralizing getting carried away, even when people doing it accuse ‘the other side’ of being blinded by moralizing against poor people. Which perhaps some are. But we’re left eventually IMO with the fact that a lot of social ill among poor people is self inflicted, of which epidemic obesity is a pretty obvious example. It’s a negative side effect of the welfare state superimposed over particular American (sub)culture(s) and history, but still a result of people’s own choices. Though as I said above the underlying idea is defensible as in saving children from physical want, and also a system which encourages obesity by some still has others at least ‘at risk’ of being actually hungry. So there’s a rough weighing of ‘Type I’ v ‘Type II’ errors based on a general consensus that hunger is worse than epidemic obesity. But when one ‘progresses’ to actually deeming self inflicted harm to be externally inflicted, because it’s ‘more compassionate’ to make believe that’s so, that’s when things can go off the rails. \*the ifs or but would mainly depend on whether you compared say the bottom 50% with the top 50% in income. In that case it’s clear: the bottom is fatter. If you compared people right at the very bottom to people further up in the bottom half, and called the latter ‘not poor’ it might be more ambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/158 "2017-07-14T21:14:11Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m a couple of years younger than you and we definitely had Home Ec classes in primary _and_ high school; I grew up in New Zealand. They were invaluable - taught me basic cooking (which I expanded upon as I got older), sewing (I can repair minor tears, reattach buttons, things like that) and important things like food hygiene and other random but useful “around the house” stuff. As you note, you grew up in a different country than I did. I’d like to hear similar anecdotes from other U.S. residents. > [@Slash1972](#): > > I would draw the line at things that offer no nutritional value. Does soda have any nutritional value? Well, it has hydration value. Does that count? As far as personal anecdotes, I’ve recently experienced something I think has relevance to this thread. Lately, due to health issues, my appetite has been totally non-existent. Lately, there have been days when I absolutely could not stomach anything for much of the day and evening, often times not able to choke anything down until 8 or 9pm. Well the day before yesterday was such a day and when I finally was able to fathom eating something, I tried to get easy-to-eat, high calorie foods. I ended up eating, for the entire day, two McDonald’s cheeseburgers as well as a vanilla milkshake. Even with these items, it _felt_ to me as if I were starving myself. I mean, compared to eating throughout the day like I normally do, eating your entire day’s calories in 10-15 min really seemed as if I was starving myself. Yet, upon a bit calculating, I realized that despite not eating for the entire day, the couple items of food I did eat at night still totaled about 1500 calories or so. Which was eye-opening for me. For those who aren’t unable to eat and indulge in fast food on a regular basis, those calories can add up in a flash. And it really doesn’t seem like you are overeating. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/159 "2017-07-14T21:29:16Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m a couple of years younger than you and we definitely had Home Ec classes in primary _and_ high school; I grew up in New Zealand. They were invaluable - taught me basic cooking (which I expanded upon as I got older), sewing (I can repair minor tears, reattach buttons, things like that) and important things like food hygiene and other random but useful “around the house” stuff. 38 here and I had Home Ec in 6th, 7th, 8th grade in Maryland early 90s. Required part of a “rotation” period including Art, Industrial Arts (shop), Technology, Keyboarding (typing on PC), and something else. Home Ec was broken up into 2 classes: Cooking and Sewing. By age 14 I was cooking professionally, too. ---
**Author:** ![actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e79b87/32.png) [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/actualliberalnotoneofthose)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/160 "2017-07-14T21:33:49Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > The problem with SNAP is that you can use it to buy any food item with the _exception_ of a short list of certain foods. It should be the opposite, i.e. it should be more like WIC; it should be changed so that all food items are prohibited with the exception of certain food items. These should include generic poultry, beans, eggs, rice, potatoes, etc. No soda, no steak, no seafood, and no processed or frozen foods. Well, I disagree. That’s a terrible diet and could cause further health problems and exacerbate existing reasons for low income. The idea that beans and rice is a good diet is completely subjective at best. If poultry is allowed but steak is not I wonder if you are a lobbyist for Perdue or Tyson or something. See my above comment about prison diets and I stand by that. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123/161 "2017-07-14T21:34:36Z")
> [@actualliberalnotoneofthose](#): > > 38 here and I had Home Ec in 6th, 7th, 8th grade in Maryland early 90s. Required part of a “rotation” period including Art, Industrial Arts (shop), Technology, Keyboarding (typing on PC), and something else. Home Ec was broken up into 2 classes: Cooking and Sewing. By age 14 I was cooking professionally, too. Huh. This is kind of amazing to me. I’ve literally never heard of anyone I knew in RL who took such classes. Now maybe this is just because the same things were taught but just as separate classes. Because I did have art, shop, etc. Never anything about cooking or sewing or anything like that. I also went to school in the ghetto (much of the time anyways), if that matters. 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-women-in-poverty-become-obese/791123.md?page=9)