# How do you bill for stud fees? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 4, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781 "2002-04-04T15:05:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/1 "2002-04-04T15:05:13Z")
Per this [article/book review in Salon](http://www.salon.com/books/review/2002/04/04/conley/index.html) studs are paid up to $ 500,000 per “pop”. Is that cash for the effort itself or only if a foal/successful pregnancy results? The article doesn’t say. > [@](#): > > Stud" by Kevin Conley > A New Yorker editor offers a behind-the-scenes look at the world of elite horse-breeding, where one roll in the hay is worth $500,000 ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/2 "2002-04-04T15:10:15Z")
hmm, astro wants to know how to bill for stud fees. Geez, is he THAT good? 😃 _cough_ Er, well, \* cough \*… to address the OP: whether it’s payable “upon live foal” or “upon pregnancy” is negotiable, and I believe it is the norm. I mean, why would you pay $500,000 just so’s some stud could have a good time with your mare? The whole point of the exercise (exercise?) is to produce a foal. ---
**Author:** ![Why\_A\_Duck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/13edae/32.png) [@Why\_A\_Duck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Why_A_Duck)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/3 "2002-04-04T15:12:50Z")
I don’t know about the “elite” world, but in the normal horse world there are several options. The most common one I’ve seen for frozen semen (as opposed to “live cover” which can have transportation, boarding, and other fees associated with it) include a caveat stating that the fee guarantees a live foal. In other words, as long as the insemination is done by a qualified vet and all procedures are followed, then the stud’s owner will continue to ship semen for additional tries at no charge if the first one fails. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/4 "2002-04-04T15:21:00Z")
All Thoroughbreds which are bred for racing must be conceived under “live cover” by Jockey Club rules. Otherwise they can’t race. Normally the fee includes a guarantee of a foal. This means that if the mare doesn’t take she is usually bred again until she does, or else the owner can get their fee back and go elsewhere. However, you have to go in with a vet’s check of breeding soundness on the mare’s part. As far as how people are actually billed… its the same as any other service, invoices, exchange of checks, all that. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/5 "2002-04-04T16:06:11Z")
The frozen semen method is acceptable in quarter horses and standardbreds, but not thoroughbreds as Hello Again clarified. Stud fees typically say something to the effect of \*\* “$15,000 live foal” or, “$15,000, due when the foal stands and nurses.” \*\* Those are essentially synonymous–live foal means the little guy will be alive and healthy enough to get up and nurse. **Sickly foals are a detraction to both stud owner and breeder.** If there is a problem with the foal, or if the mare “slips” (miscarries), a breed-back (free) is typically offered. If it’s early enough in the breeding season, the mare will be rebred for that year. Otherwise, they’ll have to wait until the next year–a loss to the farm. (On a brief side note, last year thousands of mares succombed to “Mare Reproductive Loss Syndrome”–MRLS–and either miscarried their fetuses late in the season or gave birth to very sickly foals. These massive losses in Kentucky’s largest agricultural industry will cost the state an estimated $336 million through 2003. Hot damn!) My friend who owns, breeds, trains, and races thoroughbreds has in the past mentioned that **stud fees are usually due in September**. Considering most foals are born between February and May, this gives you a little time to save up your pennies to pay that chunk of dough. (“Due when the foal stands and nurses” --I’ll have to ask her about–it seems contrary to the September date, but I’m assuming there may be a payment plan involved.) BTW, $500,000 is not the top expense for a breeding. It is currently, if you want to breed to Storm Cat, but in the past $1,000,000 stud fees were charged for Mr. Prospector and Northern Dancer. The idea of these charges is basic capitalism–supply and demand. Demand was so high for those studs, the fees kept going up. Even when they became quite picky about approving mares to be bred to the stallions, the fees kept going up. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/6 "2002-04-04T16:10:48Z")
Teri Gross did a whole “Fresh Air” show about this subject last week, IIRC. Don’t all horses have a universal birthday of January 1, regardless of the real date on which they were foaled? I seem to remember reading that somewhere, but it could be a Rural Legend. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/7 "2002-04-04T16:16:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by plnnr \* > \*\* > Don’t all horses have a universal birthday of January 1, regardless of the real date on which they were foaled? I seem to remember reading that somewhere, but it could be a Rural Legend. \*\* That’s quite true. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/8 "2002-04-04T16:40:48Z")
Yes, thoroughbreds all share the same birthday of January 1st for _most_ racing purposes (otherwise, figuring out who qualifies for a 3-year-old straight maiden would be an added pain in the ass). However, it isn’t that the actual foaling date goes unnoticed or unrecognized. In California, for example, it is _illegal_ to race a horse that isn’t _physically_ two years old yet. Actual foaling dates come into play, also, when horses are sold at auction. It’s generally considered a disadvantage if a horse is a “May foal” or a “June foal” because they are several months younger than their peers–a considerable disadvantage in even age-restricted races. ---
**Author:** ![Ivar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/51bf81/32.png) [@Ivar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/9 "2002-04-04T17:05:57Z")
Well, in my case, you just need to send me 5 bucks. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DougC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@DougC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DougC)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/10 "2002-04-04T22:26:00Z")
- - - I charge by the inch. How much did you want? - DougC ~ -you just had to know this would happen… ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/11 "2002-04-04T22:45:03Z")
> [@](#): > > - > - > - I charge by the inch. How much did you want? - DougC I’ll take **both** of them 😉 ---
**Author:** ![renigademaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71c47a/32.png) [@renigademaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/renigademaster)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2002, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/12 "2002-04-04T23:00:14Z")
I read the book that was being refered to in the [salon.com](http://salon.com) article. The fees are usually paid when the baby horse is delivered, dead, sickly, or alive. There is usually a “small” (20-50k fee) for the horse to be housed at the stable, under the care of the staff there… etc. Also Artificial insemination is banned, so that is not an option if you want to have a horse that can be raced. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/13 "2002-04-05T01:32:36Z")
I use Quicken… oh, this is about **horses**? ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2002, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-bill-for-stud-fees/101781/14 "2002-04-05T02:58:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Ivar \* > \*\*Well, in my case, you just need to send me 5 bucks. 😃 \*\* [duece bigelow] I’ve been getting $10 [/duece bigelow]