# How do you Brits get "rafe" from "Ralph" and **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2013, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293 "2013-02-14T16:41:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/21 "2013-02-15T12:08:38Z")
Where’s **lieu** when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/22 "2013-02-15T12:47:53Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I always assumed that was actorly bullshit on his part, like “Topher” Grace’s bizarre shortening of Christopher. Fiennes’ brother’s name is _Joseph_ for Og’s sake! I gather that this is true. A friend knew his mother Jennifer Lash, who died in 1993 before Fiennes was well known internationally. The first time she heard his name pronounced as Rafe she thought it was a mistake as Lash had always, many years before, called him Ralph. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/23 "2013-02-15T12:57:55Z")
I’d always assumed it’s just how posh people pronounce Ralph – the upper classes do like to make themselves feel special, and the [Fiennes family](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiennes) is supremely posh. I don’t know any normal person who pronounces it Rafe. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/24 "2013-02-15T13:11:28Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > So far as I’m aware, ‘Ralph’ pronounced ‘Rafe’ is restricted to the same English people that rhyme ‘house’ with ‘mice’- . Stop right there. I’ve heard the odd prononciatyions of “Ralph” and “lieytenant” and even Featherstonehaugh and Cholmondeley, but I’ve neve even heard a suggestion of anyone pronouncing “house” like “mice”. I have a hard time even imagining it. It’s as if you said someone pronounced “automobile” so it rhymes with “hydrant”. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/25 "2013-02-15T13:18:01Z")
[The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-200770,00.html) has heard of it. > [@](#): > > \*THIS SCEPTRED ISLE > > Some royals pronounce “house” as “hice”. What is the original of this and does anyone else do it?\* ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/26 "2013-02-15T13:28:59Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > [The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqueries/query/0,,-200770,00.html) has heard of it. From your linked article: > [@](#): > > With all those caveats I would state that the vocal posture (positions of lips/tongue/teeth) used for that particular phoneme is approximated in many northern Irish accents (famously “Kize Mee” for “Cows moo”) It gets weirder and weirder “Kize Mee” for “Cows Moo”?\* "hydrant is starting to sound more like “automobile”. \*and “famously”? I guess we don’t hear about it, out here in the sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/27 "2013-02-15T14:42:06Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > I can confirm from personal experience that, in Northumberland and Tyneside, Ralph is often pronounced to rhyme with half. Perhaps less often these days, when the name is rarer, and people are less likely to personally know someone of that name, but it’s certainly around. Same in Lancashire. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/28 "2013-02-15T14:45:24Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > It gets weirder and weirder “Kize Mee” for “Cows Moo”?\* "hydrant is starting to sound more like “automobile”.. Just listen to the Rev. Ian Paisley for examples of this. Pretty common and the standard go-to sterotype for anyone mimicking a N.I. accent. "I want a Sandwich…and I want it niya! Don’t fret about it. The UK and British isles in general are supremely rich and weird when it comes to accents. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/29 "2013-02-15T16:42:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > . . . I’ve neve even heard a suggestion of anyone pronouncing “house” like “mice”. I have a hard time even imagining it. So did I at first, but. . . . I could imagine “house” being pronounced with two syllables as something like “HI-uhs”. In certain parts of my neck of the woods, I’ve heard a short _a_ sound, which I think is the first part of the diphthong pronounced as a long _i_, in words like “gas” and “half”, which to some speakers would be rendered as “gice” and “hife.” I wouldn’t say that’s common, but it wasn’t unusual in older speakers back in the day. ETA, which is similar to the Ian Paisley’s accent is rendered above. ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/30 "2013-02-15T18:24:13Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > My wife’s piano (who studied at the British conservatory) always claimed that Van Williams pronounced it with the “l”, but the rest of his family didn’t. You talk to your wife’s piano about name pronunciation? ---
**Author:** ![Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8c91f0/32.png) [@Bam\_Boo\_Gut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bam_Boo_Gut)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/31 "2013-02-15T21:57:25Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Huh. I didn’t even know this was a thing. I always assumed “Rafe” was shorthand for Rafael. > > Learn something new everyday. Me too. All my Ralphs are Ralph, and all my Rafes are short for Rafael, Raffy is short for Rafael too. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/32 "2013-02-15T22:29:07Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’ve heard the odd prononciatyions of “Ralph” and “lieytenant” and even Featherstonehaugh and Cholmondeley, but I’ve neve even heard a suggestion of anyone pronouncing “house” like “mice”. I have a hard time even imagining it. > > It’s as if you said someone pronounced “automobile” so it rhymes with “hydrant”. We’re talking about people who can [rhyme “eye” and “symmetry”.](http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html) Who knows what they’ll do? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/33 "2013-02-15T22:37:12Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Holy crap. He get’s Taye from Scott? That’s something right there. Without looking it up and sussing it out only from Standard American Stupid, I think it would go. Scott Scotty Scottay! (as in something your stupid friends call you) Tay! (shortened) Taye (affected) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/34 "2013-02-15T23:20:01Z")
The got it from Featherstonehaugh. ---
**Author:** ![Asympotically\_fat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e47c2d/32.png) [@Asympotically\_fat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asympotically_fat)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/35 "2013-02-16T06:21:03Z")
> [@NitroPress](#): > > I think it’s an unhyphenated hyphenate, like Conan Doyle. However, it’s a legitimate double surname, unlike Doyle… > > What I’ve never gotten a good explanation of is how Arthur (first) Conan (middle) Doyle (surname) became the Conan Doyle family. It wasn’t his father’s name, but beginning in college and with his marriage, ‘Conan Doyle’ became the family name. > > Then there’s Ludwig Mies [(van der) Rohe]… but let’s stop. It was sometimes done that way, for example one of my own middle names is actually a surname. My last name is a very common surname (let’s call it Smith) and my last middle name is a less common (let’s say Bradbury), but not rare surname. All the males (and sometimes the females) through that lineage have names along the lines of: James Henry Bradbury Smith. The name originated in Gloucester sometime in the early 19th century (or may be a little earlier) when two locally fairly prominent families married (the Bradburys and the Smiths). The Bradbury name was preserved as a middle name. As the the Bradburys and the Smiths who were partners in a firm called Bradbury Smith (which actually still exists today as part of another firm) there have been a quite a number of architects with the Bradbury Smith name in the UK (well not really as I’ve changed the names) and there’s still a few architects with the Bradbury Smith name around today in the UK who are distant relatives. Sometimes the Bradbury Smith name is hyphenated as Bradbury-Smith, most times it isn’t. Coincidentally there was also an unrelated (as far as I know) family in the USA with the same Bradbury Smith name, which means that there’s a number of people in the USA with the name. Even more coincidentally they were also architects and engineers specializing in building bridges. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/36 "2013-02-16T13:38:27Z")
This from a country where they can pronounce “nuclear” as “nookyulur”. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/37 "2013-02-16T19:14:25Z")
> [@NAF1138](#): > > Holy crap. He get’s Taye from Scott? That’s something right there. > > I always thought that “Rafe” was a legit British pronunciation of “Ralph” but now I am not sure. Other than R. Vaughn Williams and R. Finnes, are there any other famous Ralph’s who went by Rafe? Not a real person, but in The Thorn Birds, it’s mentioned that Father Ralph’s name is pronounced as Rafe. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2013, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/38 "2013-02-16T20:17:49Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Taye (affected) I noticed while looking him up that he married Idina Menzel, and they have a son. I can’t help but wonder what color he is… ETA: Okay, that sounds unpardonably racist. What I meant, was… look up Menzel’s most famous role and work it through. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/39 "2013-02-17T07:10:29Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > How do you get Loo-tenant from Lieutenant? Do the barracks’ toilets get clogged up so frequently, they need a dedicated officer to watch over them? In case this is serious, it’s pretty easy. Eu makes the french u sound, which is corrupted to the English oo sound since we don’t have mixed vowels as phonemes. The i would make a y (IPA [j]) sound. However, ly ([lj)] is a difficult sound to use to start a word, so the y ([j]) gets dropped. The same thing happens with many accent for words like “new” (which can end like few or goo depending on the accent.) So it goes from lieutenant to lyoo-tenant to loo-tenant. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293/40 "2013-02-17T07:16:44Z")
Thanks for the explanation. I personally pronounce it Let-tenant… I don’t exagerate the ‘left’ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-brits-get-rafe-from-ralph-and/650293.md?page=3)