# How do you call someone born in the USA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2002, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087 "2002-05-09T14:56:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/61 "2002-05-15T11:45:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > My position is that the fact that a person is from the European Union _is_ of sufficient practical importance to require such a word. We have a word; it is “European”. The word also means a person from the geographic continent of Europe. It is not often required to be used with that meaning but, when it is, it is usually clear from the context what meaning is intended. I’m not so sure about this. I would argue that it is the other way round - otherwise the generally accepted term “European” excludes the Swiss, which it clearly doesn’t. In common usage, “European” means “from Europe”; applying the term to the E.U. is the secondary usage, not the primary. The question “Are you European?” means something different from “Are you from the E.U.?”, whereas “Are you American?” tends to mean the same as “Are you from the U.S.?” The difference between other confederations and the case of the E.U. is nationality. A citizen of any of the states in the US is an American Citizen. A citizen of any of the cantons of Switzerland is a Swiss Citizen. However, a citizen in any of the states in the E.U. is not a European Citizen, as there is no such thing. A Brit is a Brit, a German is a German and a Frenchman is dirty (;)). I think this makes an important distinction between confederations such as the U.S. and groups such as the E.U., which would be better described as a souped-up NAFTA. ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/62 "2002-05-15T11:58:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > My position is that the fact that a person is from the European Union _is_ of sufficient practical importance to require such a word. We have a word; it is “European”. The word also means a person from the geographic continent of Europe. It is not often required to be used with that meaning but, when it is, it is usually clear from the context what meaning is intended. I agree with you to some extent, but I think most “Europeans” think of ourselves as citizens of a country belonging to the EU rather than Europeans. What really bugs me, though, is when people ask “How is this done in Europe?” and such things. It’s like asking “What’s the weather like in North America?”, i.e. nonsensical. There are some things that operate on an EU level and the different member countries adjust their legislation but in most cases you must specify which country you mean. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/63 "2002-05-15T12:21:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sirjamesp \* > **The difference between other confederations and the case of the E.U. is nationality. A citizen of any of the states in the US is an American Citizen. A citizen of any of the cantons of Switzerland is a Swiss Citizen. However, a citizen in any of the states in the E.U. is not a European Citizen, as there is no such thing.** Indeed there is. Under Article 17 of the EC treaty a citizen of any of the member states is “a citizen of the Union”, and as such he can (among other things) - move freely and reside throughout the Union - vote and stand in EU elections and in the domestic elections of any member state on the same conditions as nationals of that state - take advantage, when outside the EU, of the diplomatic and consular protection of any EU member state on the same conditions as nationals of that state. Can he get an EU passport? No; the Union does not issue passports, the member states do that. This illustrates that, notwithstanding there is an EU nationality, and EU identity, and so forth, they are of less signifance that US nationality and US identity. In general, this is because the EU is less centralised and less homogenous than the US. In addition, there is an ethnic and cultural concept of Europeanness which goes well beyond the EU and which is quite signficant, while there is no similar concept in relation to the Americas. In general, then, depending on the context the word “American” can mean either “pertaining to the US” or “pertaining to the Americas” but, since the latter concept is not a very useful one, it nearly always has the former meaning. The word “European” can mean either “pertaining to the European Union” or “pertaining to the European continent”, and both of these are useful and signficant concepts, so the word is often used in both senses. ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/64 "2002-05-15T12:38:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > Indeed there is. Under Article 17 of the EC treaty a citizen of any of the member states is “a citizen of the Union”, and as such he can (among other things)… > \ > This illustrates that, notwithstanding there is an EU nationality Not quite. “A citizen of the Union” does not mean the same thing as “a Europen citizen” or “one with E.U. nationality”. It merely means “a citizen of a member state of the E.U.”, and is used to show the legal rights (you listed) member states’ citizens have. There is no such thing as European Citizenship or European Nationality. ---
**Author:** ![mbk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@mbk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbk)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/65 "2002-05-15T12:57:14Z")
I thought I had it easy with describing my nationality but now I’m all confused 🙂 Ok, born in England (as were parents). On visa applications and the like I always answer “England” for the “Country of birth” question and “British” in the “Nationality” question. Does this sound correct? So I guess I’m a resident of: England Great Britain The United Kingdom The Commonwealth & Europe. As for a name for people born in the US, I agree with the general consensus in this thread, ie. that it’s a question of context - American can quite happily refer to an inhabitant of the USA or of the Americas. As for whether North & South America are seperate continents, I seem to remember being taught in school that the six continents were: Africa Americas Antartica Asia Australia Europe Though the concept of North/South America as seperate continents is certainly one that I’m both familar and comfortable with. Europe & Asia are increasingly getting lumped together (in geographic and scientific circles, if not in political) to form the continent of Eurasia. Ok, back to a name for someone born in the USA. The only term in common usage that I know of that specifically refers to a citizen of the United States of America is slang, and probably offensive - Yank(s), shortened form of Yankee. In the UK this term is specific to an inhabitant of the USA, I understand that in the USA it could also refer to someone from New England or be specific to one side in the US civil war (can’t remember which side I’m afraid!) ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/66 "2002-05-15T13:31:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by sirjamesp \* > \*\*Not quite. “A citizen of the Union” does not mean the same thing as “a Europen citizen” or “one with E.U. nationality”. It merely means “a citizen of a member state of the E.U.”, and is used to show the legal rights (you listed) member states’ citizens have. > > There is no such thing as European Citizenship or European Nationality. \*\* Yes, there is. Here is the relevant text. \*“1. Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. 1. Citizens of the Union shall enjoy the rights conferred by this Treaty and shall be subject to the duties imposed thereby.”\* Possession of the nationality of a member state is the necessary condition to being a citizen of the Union, but EU citizenship is something over and above citizenship of a member state, and confers different rights and duties. (The same, I think, is true of Swiss nationality. The only way to be a Swiss citizen is to be a citizen of one of the cantons, but Swiss citizenship is nevertheless distinct from cantonal citizenship.) I do not say how you can say that “there is no such thing as European Citizenship or European Nationality”. Citizenship (like any other status) is a collection of rights and obligations, and EU citizens have rights conferred by the Union, which are quite distinct from the rights conferred upon them by the particular member state of which they are also citizens. ---
**Author:** ![sirjamesp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@sirjamesp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sirjamesp)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/67 "2002-05-15T15:09:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by UDS \* > I do not say how you can say that “there is no such thing as European Citizenship or European Nationality”. Citizenship (like any other status) is a collection of rights and obligations, and EU citizens have rights conferred by the Union, which are quite distinct from the rights conferred upon them by the particular member state of which they are also citizens. My problem is that I am not keeping my terms clear. “Citizenship of the Union” is certainly not the same as “European Citizenship” in the sense of “European Nationality”. I reckon I am confusing the issue by using two different meanings of “citizenship”, though the context ought to make it (kind of) clear. From Merriam-Webster: > [@](#): > > Main Entry: cit·i·zen > 1 : an inhabitant of a city or town; especially : one entitled to the rights and privileges of a freeman > 2 a : a member of a state b : a native or naturalized person who owes allegiance to a government and is entitled to protection from it > [3 : a civilian as distinguished from a specialized servant of the state] “Citizenship of the Union” (or to be a citizen of the Union) falls into definition one. It does not go all the way into definition two because (a) the E.U. is not a state, and (b) citizens of member states do not owe allegiance to a European government, nor can they expect protection from it (since it has no army or jurisdiction over defence). But so much for what the dictionary says, since we all know the real world isn’t bound by what M-W claims. According to the [E.U. itself](http://europa.eu.int/comm/cdp/working-paper/european_identity_en.pdf)[sub]CAUTION! PDF![/sub], citizenship of the Union is just membership of a “body politic”. You see, you may have “citizenship of the Union”, but you do _not_ have “European Union Nationality”. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/68 "2002-05-15T16:16:37Z")
Hi sirjamesp The document to which you have linked is a collection of papers from an academic forum reflecting upon European identity. There are fifteen papers by different authors, one of whom is an official of the EU and one of whom is a Swedish government official. The phrase “membership of a body politic” occurs once, in a paper by an Italian academic on “European Identity and Citizenship”. It is not used in a context which suggests that it is an attempt to describe the European Citizenship explicitly created by the EU Treaties. And, in any event, the very first page of the document states explicitly that “the contents of this publication do not necessarily reflect the opinion or position of the European Commission.” So it is careless (or worse) of you to present this as the views of “the EU itself”. I take your point that citizenship can have more than one meaning, and it may or may not mean the same thing as nationality. In a legal context the terms are usually interchangeable; US citizen = US national. But in other contexts the terms are not interchangeable; I consider myself a citizen of Dublin, for example, but there is no such thing as Dublin nationality. I’m a citizen of Dublin because my home is there, but that gives me no particular legal rights or obligations. I do not think that the word “citizen” is used in this sense in the EU treaties, because (a) there are many people who reside within the EU but are not citizens of the Union, (b) there are many citizens of the Union who do not reside there, and © being a citizen of the Union _does_ carry important legal rights and responsibilities. I think the parallel with the use of the term “citizen” with respect to both the cantons of Switzerland and the Swiss Confederation is a closer one. You say “you do not have European Union Nationality”, but I wonder is this entirely correct? It’s true, obviously, in the cultural sense; there are many nations in the EU, not one, so membership of the EU population is not, as such, membership of any particular nation. (The same would have been true of the old Soviet Union.) But in the legal sense, where nationality = citizenship = a legal relationship with a political entity which comparable political entities will respect and recognise, I think there _is_ an EU nationality. If I find myself in difficulties in (say) Chile and, in the absence of an Irish embassy, I seek the diplomatic or consular asssistance of officials of another EU member state, the Chilean government will respect this, and will afford to those officials the same access to me as they would afford to Irish officials. Were I to seek assistance from (say) the Australain representatives, it would not be forthcoming but, more to the point, the Chilean authorities could (and almost certainly would) decline to allow the Australian representatives to have access to me. Hence my rights as an EU citizen are recognised not only by my country, by the EU and by other EU member states, but in the international community. EU nationality in the legal sense therefore exists, although I would concede that it is not as important (or, outside the EU) as useful to me as Irish nationality. ---
**Author:** ![kuroashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e9a140/32.png) [@kuroashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kuroashi)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2002, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087/69 "2002-05-17T06:16:02Z")
Uh, yeah. Thanks for pointing out my slip UDS. Floater, that’s what I meant. US = republic; EU = confederation. Sorry for being so kurt. My bad (well, you still disagree with my call…). So this thread has successfully been hijacked. Glad I could help! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-call-someone-born-in-the-usa/108087.md?page=3)