# How do you define fascism. Who is a fascist. And how do you identify. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111 "2019-07-15T04:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/21 "2019-07-16T15:36:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea “A turd by any other name…” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/22 "2019-07-16T15:43:20Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Are you for or against that type of radical right-wing, authoritarian ultranationalism? Against. I thought the last line of my earlier post made that clear. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/23 "2019-07-16T15:48:36Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Against. I thought the last line of my earlier post made that clear. No, it did not. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/24 "2019-07-16T15:49:54Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Right, but his definition is how I see the word used most often, lately. Might I offer you … glasses…? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/25 "2019-07-16T16:04:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea Best Korea hasn’t claimed to be communist for quite some time. They’re Juche now. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/26 "2019-07-16T16:20:48Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > Might I offer you … glasses…? Thanks, no. Over the years, I have encountered a few genuine fascists. We’re talking real American neo-Nazis and their Eastern European kin. I don’t like them or support their ideals. In the wonderful world of internet social media, though, the word is applied to anybody politically to the right of the writer or just to authoritarian regimes in general. It is now just a smear word, whatever its dictionary meaning. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/27 "2019-07-16T16:35:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea Yes, I would accept that as an example of a fascist regime. I would also call Saddam Hussein and Benito Mussolini fascists. And of course Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/28 "2019-07-16T16:37:23Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I identify as someone who hates identity politics. For somebody who claims to hate identity politics, you sure do a lot of it. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/29 "2019-07-16T16:44:52Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > We’re talking real American neo-Nazis I hear some of them are fine people. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/30 "2019-07-16T16:51:20Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hear some of them are fine people. Some are failed casino owners. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/31 "2019-07-16T17:18:29Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I hear some of them are fine people. The ones I knew were poor, ignorant, and angry. Prone to violence too. Chemical abuse was the rule as was having a criminal record. They were the unpleasant results of unpleasant lives. ---
**Author:** ![excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e8c25b/32.png) [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/excavating_for_a_mind)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/32 "2019-07-16T17:36:26Z")
It is interesting how may posters’ definition of fascism includes “right wing” when the overwhelming historical examples that most everyone will agree as being fascist (Nazi Germany, USSR, Red China, Prewar Italy) were overwhelmingly “left”. It seems to me that fascism requires socialism to work. Even the Spanish Inquisition depended on the Catholic Church, certainly a leftist organization based on leftist ideals (particularly for the time). > [@jz78817](#): > > “fascists” are anyone who have political beliefs different from mine. > /s This really appears to the only accurate (and neutral) definition. He got it right. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/33 "2019-07-16T17:39:21Z")
I wouldn’t agree that USSR and Red China were fascist. While they were bad enough that it’s even debatable whether they were better or worse than Nazi Germany, that doesn’t make them fascist. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/34 "2019-07-16T17:42:15Z")
With regards to leftism, socialism was “in” at the time so at least the Nazis and Fascists (not sure about Franco) had to have the trappings of socialism but did not deliver on most of it, and indeed purged the actual socialists from their ranks in the case of Germany. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/35 "2019-07-16T17:44:37Z")
TLDR version of this thread: - Posters who talk a lot about socialism suddenly have trouble defining political theories. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/36 "2019-07-16T19:08:50Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > TLDR version of this thread: > > - Posters who talk a lot about socialism suddenly have trouble defining political theories. FTW ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/37 "2019-07-16T19:30:15Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > It is interesting how may posters’ definition of fascism includes “right wing” when the overwhelming historical examples that most everyone will agree as being fascist (Nazi Germany, USSR, Red China, Prewar Italy) were overwhelmingly “left”. It seems to me that fascism requires socialism to work. Even the Spanish Inquisition depended on the Catholic Church, certainly a leftist organization based on leftist ideals (particularly for the time). > > This really appears to the only accurate (and neutral) definition. > He got it right. 1. Ah, this old argument. The vertical axis on the Political Compass was more important in this case; you’re conflating fascism with authoritarianism. The Nazis were not \*purely \*right wing, but they rose with the help of right wing movements and in opposition to leftism. 2. The Spanish Inquisition was under the control of the Spanish monarchs, and done without the influence of Rome. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/38 "2019-07-16T19:34:57Z")
Furthermore, outside the areas of the formal Inquisition, the church often was _more_ interested in protecting the Jews specifically than the common people were, at least paying lip service to their right to exist rather than cheering on the murderous mobs. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/39 "2019-07-16T20:03:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea North Korea is not “communist.” Communism (i.e. what Marx originally envisioned) has never existed on national scale, it simply can’t work. I don’t think it can ever work for anything bigger than, say, a _neighborhood._ And yes, I know the ruling parties of most of those countries (whether still existing or not) called themselves some form of “Communist Party,” that doesn’t make them so. Just like North Korea is not a democracy simply because they call themselves the “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.” A ruling class which enforces their power at gunpoint is pretty much the opposite of communism. All Lenin did was change the nameplate on the door. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/40 "2019-07-16T21:00:45Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea North Korea probably is more fascist than communist at this point. They even make racial purity a major part of their program, and unlike communist nations that at least give lip service to social egalitarianism, North Korea has strict social hierarchies. Of the 5 communist nations on earth, I don’t know if any are truly communist anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111.md?page=3)