# How do you define fascism. Who is a fascist. And how do you identify. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 15, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111 "2019-07-15T04:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/41 "2019-07-16T21:55:24Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I am 100% certain that someone carrying an axe with a bunch of sticks tied around it is a fascist. The rest I can’t be completely sure of. I don’t know. It could be a Boy Scout. You’d have to look more closely at the uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/42 "2019-07-16T23:01:06Z")
The primary component of fascism in my view is authoritarianism. That can come from anywhere - the desire to control others isn’t monopolized by the left or right. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/43 "2019-07-16T23:10:03Z")
> [@excavating\_for\_a\_mind](#): > > It is interesting how may posters’ definition of fascism includes “right wing” when the overwhelming historical examples that most everyone will agree as being fascist (Nazi Germany, USSR, Red China, Prewar Italy) were overwhelmingly “left”. It seems to me that fascism requires socialism to work. Even the Spanish Inquisition depended on the Catholic Church, certainly a leftist organization based on leftist ideals (particularly for the time). If you believe this, you need to learn a lot more history. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/44 "2019-07-16T23:15:25Z")
**excavating** reminded me of another feature of fascism: a profoundly ignorant populace that accepts rewritten history as fact (see any Texas history textbook on slavery, or randomly turn on Fox News). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/45 "2019-07-16T23:21:22Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I wouldn’t agree that USSR and Red China were fascist. While they were bad enough that it’s even debatable whether they were better or worse than Nazi Germany, that doesn’t make them fascist. I agree. Communist regimes are certainly totalitarian dictatorships. And they have had periods when they had cults of personality (Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro). But communist regimes aren’t overtly militaristic. They claim that peace is their goal. I realize they often stray away from that goal but so do western democracies. The point is that they present peace as a positive and war as a negative. Fascist regimes do the opposite. Communist regimes also lack the belief in inherent tribalism that is a central pillar of fascism. Communism claims to be a universal ideology in which everyone is potentially welcome and equal. In an ideal communist world, everyone would be a communist. This is not true of fascism; fascist believed that there is one group that is better than everyone else and that people who are outside of this group can never enter in. Communists believe you can convert people into communists; fascists believe outsiders can’t be converted to insiders and must therefore be subjugated or eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/46 "2019-07-16T23:34:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The primary component of fascism in my view is authoritarianism. That can come from anywhere - the desire to control others isn’t monopolized by the left or right. Disagree. There is an authoritarian left but generally there are major differences between right wing and left wing authoritarianism. Right wing tends to be nationalistic, while left wing doesn’t believe in national borders. Right wing believes in racial and gender heirarchies, left wingers generally do not (at least nominally) Right wing authoritarians tend to be friendly to powerful corporations, left wing ones are not etc. Fascism is more right wing authoritarianism, motivated by a sense of defenselessness in the face of domestic and foreign threats. And not all authoritarian regimes are ideological. I wouldn’t personally consider the dictatorship in Syria to be either right or left wing. A lot of dictatorships are just about maintaining the power and status of the dictator and their inner circle, not about any political ideology. Personally I’d consider Islamic extremist groups fascist (like Al Qaeda or ISIL), North Korea is arguably fascist, and the resurgence of neofascism in Europe & the US in response to globalization and islamic migration is fascist too. But its nothing like Venezuela which is a different kind of authoritarian regime. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/47 "2019-07-17T02:38:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > This sounds like you’re describing communist North Korea Also from Orwell: > [@](#): > > “The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.” ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/48 "2019-07-17T02:46:12Z")
Mussolini on Fascism: [The Docrine of Fascism](http://www.gutenberg.org/files/14058/14058-h/14058-h.htm#THE_DOCTRINE_OF_FASCISM) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/49 "2019-07-17T03:20:28Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I agree. > > Communist regimes are certainly totalitarian dictatorships. And they have had periods when they had cults of personality (Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro). > > But communist regimes aren’t overtly militaristic. They claim that peace is their goal. I realize they often stray away from that goal but so do western democracies. The point is that they present peace as a positive and war as a negative. Fascist regimes do the opposite. > > Communist regimes also lack the belief in inherent tribalism that is a central pillar of fascism. Communism claims to be a universal ideology in which everyone is potentially welcome and equal. In an ideal communist world, everyone would be a communist. This is not true of fascism; fascist believed that there is one group that is better than everyone else and that people who are outside of this group can never enter in. Communists believe you can convert people into communists; fascists believe outsiders can’t be converted to insiders and must therefore be subjugated or eliminated. I forgot another major difference between communist regimes and fascist regimes; their temporal orientation. Fascist regimes present a mythological and pseudohistorical basis for their legitimacy. They will claim to be the successors of some past golden age who are trying to revive that golden age. Communist regimes present a pseudoscientific basis for their legitimacy. They will claim they are making a clean break with the past and are moving forward into an ideal future as something new. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/50 "2019-07-17T05:14:00Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I don’t know. It could be a Boy Scout. You’d have to look more closely at the uniform. Webelos sounds communistic. Should be Mebelos. > [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Right wing tends to be nationalistic, while left wing doesn’t believe in national borders. There are many left wing nationalist movements out there. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/51 "2019-07-17T11:37:38Z")
If they can make the trains run on time, they are a Fascist.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/52 "2019-07-17T12:07:33Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Right, but his definition is how I see the word used most often, lately. Where is it you guys are hearing the word “fascism” these days? Maybe I don’t get out enough, but I haven’t heard anyone use the term other than historically (Hitler, etc.) or in reference to Trump. Both uses seem legitimate and non controversial. Are people really calling people like Bernie or Romney fascists? ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/53 "2019-07-17T12:19:26Z")
Didn’t hippies toss out the word from time to time in reference to the [del]fuzz[/del] constabulary? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2019, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/54 "2019-07-17T12:22:01Z")
I think that Trump supporters resent being called out for embracing fascism. They still want to embrace fascism, they just don’t think it’s nice that we make them feel bad about it. ---
**Author:** ![DorkVader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/73ab20/32.png) [@DorkVader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DorkVader)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/55 "2019-07-18T12:52:02Z")
Interesting, I was just looking at the websters online dictionary and wikipedia definition of this word last night. Trump et al are (seemingly) a textbook fascist group, as far as I can tell. Obama and congress at that time had some facist qualities, but were not fascists per sé. Were/are there people labeling Mr. Obama as fascist? I seem to remember it, but can’t say for certain. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/56 "2019-07-18T15:11:47Z")
Fringe groups were comparing him to the Nazis for health care, for one example. I only remember it because of one viral example where Barney Franks schooled someone who was holding up a poster showing obamhitler and asked Barney about the “nazi policy” of obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/57 "2019-07-18T16:25:37Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I think that Trump supporters resent being called out for embracing fascism. They still want to embrace fascism, they just don’t think it’s nice that we make them feel bad about it. The deal is still on the table: We’ll be nice to them if they stop being [del]stupid[/del] fascists. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/58 "2019-07-18T17:48:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The deal is still on the table: We’ll be nice to them if they stop being [del]stupid[/del] fascists. I don’t know man, there’s going to come a point where an awful lot of Trump supporters are going to try to walk back a lot of their actions and words, I’m not at all prepared to let it slide with out some contrition. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/59 "2019-07-18T19:20:44Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > The deal is still on the table: We’ll be nice to them if they stop being [del]stupid[/del] fascists. Too many people on this rock as it is. I say we round up people who have demonstrated a willingness to nurture and champion fascist views, sterilize them, and put them to work in highly supervised closed communities. For their own safety, of course. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111/60 "2019-07-18T19:37:51Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > I don’t know man, there’s going to come a point where an awful lot of Trump supporters are going to try to walk back a lot of their actions and words… Why do you think this will happen? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-fascism-who-is-a-fascist-and-how-do-you-identify/837111.md?page=4)