# How do you define "hate speech"? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 3, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952 "2019-04-03T00:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/41 "2019-04-04T15:24:27Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > I do and quite obviously it implies imprisonment of a political opponent without a trial. I think people are stretching if they don’t believe the later (I do think people can disagree on whether the chanting can lead to a breach of the peace even though I disagree) Well, “Lock her up after trial by jury by peers!” doesn’t exactly make for a catchy chant at a rally. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/42 "2019-04-04T15:33:32Z")
While a working definition has it’s place I would suggest instead looking at how it’s being enforced. For instance, instead of just condemning Canada for any law that infringes on the American measure of utterly free speech, look instead to how the law is actually being applied. Is it being seriously overused or misapplied? Used to silence political opponents etc? Or is it being used to good effect, to rein in the likes of Ann Coulter’s or Westboro Baptist’s trash talking/misinformation bordering on hate? Not every nation thinks that kind of frothy rhetoric is entirely without risk to the public discourse or to productive engagement over issues. Just because America can’t possibly see it ever being anything but broadly abused by corrupt actors, doesn’t mean every nation need feel that same fear. In some places such laws ARE abused and perhaps that’s what would play out in America, and the fear is justified. But again, not everyone need follow that example. I don’t think the definition is as important as the spirit and application, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/43 "2019-04-04T15:38:26Z")
elbows, you make a good point, but just so you’re aware, “rein in the likes of Ann Coulter” would be an example of “silence political opponents” and not a “good effect” to many on the American right (and I would hope, perhaps in vain, some on the left). ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/44 "2019-04-04T15:41:18Z")
She’s not a political opponent, she’s an opportunistic pundit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/45 "2019-04-04T15:47:09Z")
“Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” Joseph Stalin Speech control is thought control. Why would anyone want the state to control speech when historically tyrannical states have been responsible for the greatest crimes against humanity is baffling. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/46 "2019-04-04T15:48:23Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > She’s not a political opponent, she’s an opportunistic pundit. Should opportunistic pundits be silenced? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/47 "2019-04-04T15:52:17Z")
Depends, are they vocally advocating for violence in a public space?. Also noting the goalpost moving of “political opponent” into vacuous talking head ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/48 "2019-04-04T16:05:05Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > “Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.” > > Joseph Stalin > > Speech control is thought control. Why would anyone want the state to control speech when historically tyrannical states have been responsible for the greatest crimes against humanity is baffling. So…what’s your definition of hate speech? Did the OP ask if it should be banned? If it did, I didn’t catch that. I don’t think it should be banned (although, of course, incitement to violence, incitement to riot, and so on, should continue to be illegal, whether it involves hate speech or not). Is hate speech illegal in the US? I don’t think it is, but I’m happy to be proven wrong. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/49 "2019-04-04T16:16:31Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > elbows, you make a good point, but just so you’re aware, “rein in the likes of Ann Coulter” would be an example of “silence political opponents” and not a “good effect” to many on the American right (and I would hope, perhaps in vain, some on the left). 1. Not a political opponent. 2. Not silenced. But told to be aware anything straying into hate will be actionable. She still spoke! But she was more precise in expressing her view, so yes, to ’good effect’! Definition isn’t as important as application and enforcement in such things. Anything can be abused. (Your Pres insisted on security clearance for his kids! And gave cabinet positions to relatives!) Language is complex and nuanced, nearly any political view can be raised without straying into hateful speech. Who wouldn’t want better language instead of hateful language in the public dialogue? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/50 "2019-04-04T16:22:20Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > … Who wouldn’t want better language instead of hateful language in the public dialogue? People who don’t want the government to have the power to define and / or arbitrarily enforce their view of what constitutes “hateful language”. On another note, I’m completely mystified by this view that Ann Coulter is not a “political opponent”. Do you think that “political opponent” only includes people running for elected office? ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/51 "2019-04-04T16:30:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > People who don’t want the government to have the power to define and / or arbitrarily enforce their view of what constitutes “hateful language”. > > On another note, I’m completely mystified by this view that Ann Coulter is not a “political opponent”. Do you think that “political opponent” only includes people running for elected office? I forget, when did she run in an election against another candidate? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/52 "2019-04-04T17:21:50Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > I forget, when did she run in an election against another candidate? AFAIK, she did not. That’s what I’m asking: do you only consider people who have run for office to be “political opponents”? I have no trouble, for example, thinking of the NRA and Gifford’s gun-control group as “political opponents”. Same with Democrats and Republicans generally, or Planned Parenthood and various pro-life groups, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/53 "2019-04-04T17:35:18Z")
Then she’s not. Glad we cleared that up. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/54 "2019-04-04T18:29:08Z")
But she wasn’t silenced, is the point, no matter how you define her position! And most people falling afoul of the law, also are NOT silenced. They are simply required to express their views without hate. Everyone with eyes can see the current rise of white supremacy incidents in today’s America. Lots of people see a connection to unfettered free (hate) speech. The current state of affairs and tone of political dialogue in US today isn’t a great advertisement for leaving hate speech unaddressed, to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/55 "2019-04-04T18:36:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > But she wasn’t silenced, is the point, no matter how you define her position! > > And most people falling afoul of the law, also are NOT silenced. They are simply required to express their views without hate. > > Everyone with eyes can see the current rise of white supremacy incidents in today’s America. Lots of people see a connection to unfettered free (hate) speech. The current state of affairs and tone of political dialogue in US today isn’t a great advertisement for leaving hate speech unaddressed, to be honest. I agree that trying to classify her as not a political opponent is a silly aside and totally irrelevant. If someone holds the view that \_\_\_\_\_ are terrible people and they are ruining the country, and they are prohibited from saying so because their speech is deemed by the appropriate government authorities as no being expressed “without hate”, then “silenced” seems like an appropriate-enough short-hand description of what’s going on, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/56 "2019-04-04T19:08:45Z")
No, actually, it doesn’t. And if NOT ACTUALLY being silenced, means ‘silenced’ to you, I’m going to bow out, as it’s just silly to continue, in my opinion. (Ask a Chinese/Russian to maybe explain the difference, I suppose.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/57 "2019-04-04T19:39:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t believe the “without a trial” bit. It’s a three-word slogan, so both sides are tempted to paint whatever context around it their heart desires, but aside from the chant, President Trump recently used Twitter to promote the idea of [TRIALS for his political opponents](https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-retweets-call-treason-trials-political-opponents-false/story%3fid=59470577). And when he chants “lock her up”, he doesn’t. I’m not going to guess what he means, I can only go by what he says. And what he says doesn’t sound much like upholding the constitution to me. I think it’s a fine example of hate speech, though. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/58 "2019-04-04T19:43:34Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > … I think it’s a fine example of hate speech, though. Well that certainly puts you in the minority here. Care to share with us how you define “hate speech”? ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/59 "2019-04-04T19:44:44Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t believe the “without a trial” bit. It’s a three-word slogan, so both sides are tempted to paint whatever context around it their heart desires, but aside from the chant, President Trump recently used Twitter to promote the idea of [TRIALS for his political opponents](https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/trump-retweets-call-treason-trials-political-opponents-false/story%3fid=59470577). You know a retweet is a bit different than a tweet? FWIW, I think the original tweeter considers that the treasons trial would be show trials (considering Obama is also shown behind bars for ‘treason’). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2019, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952/60 "2019-04-04T19:54:31Z")
> [@ISiddiqui](#): > > You know a retweet is a bit different than a tweet? … Yes, that’s why I said “used Twitter to promote the idea of” rather than just “tweeted” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-define-hate-speech/831952.md?page=4)