# How do you feel about people wearing the Iron Cross? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 23, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487 "2016-12-23T22:18:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/21 "2016-12-24T23:49:07Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > …Or GARBO, who was awarded both the Iron Cross by the Nazis and an MBE by George IV. I had no idea Garbo was that old …. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/22 "2016-12-25T00:05:34Z")
I don’t feel a single damn thing about it. Other than maybe it makes for some cool metal album covers. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/23 "2016-12-25T01:27:25Z")
I don’t care what people wear. ---
**Author:** ![HeXen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@HeXen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeXen)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/24 "2016-12-25T02:08:11Z")
I feel nothing about it. They can wear whatever they please. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/25 "2016-12-25T02:46:08Z")
There was a while, around 1965-66, when wearing the iron cross was considered hip. I remember a few people in my crowd wearing them. I don’t think it held any significance to them. Fortunately the fad didn’t last long. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/26 "2016-12-25T05:45:34Z")
As others have pointed out, the Iron Cross is older than the Swastika. Well, swastikas have ancient roots in several cultures–but the Nazis made it _their_ symbol & pretty much ruined it for everyone else. Some of the first motorcycle & custom car clubs who adopted the Iron Cross included vets who’d\* personally\* acquired them. They were meant to shock–but were never as hateful as swastikas. Today, I’d consider other factors when about someone wearing the Iron Cross. Like the reset of their ensemble & their attitudes. Today’s hip Neo-Nazis prefer nice suits & “Fashy” haircuts. [Which has caused consternation among fashionable fellows who had the haircut first–_without_ the hateful ideas.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/11/30/does-this-haircut-make-me-look-like-a-nazi/?utm_term=.f6285f6842a3) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/27 "2016-12-25T08:18:04Z")
Of the 10 million Iron Crosses issued, 4.5 million were the WWII ones, with a swastika in the middle. So 45% were Nazi ones. If I see someone wearing one of the other, non-Nazi ones, I think: 1. he’s a 115-year-old German WWI veteran, or 2. he’s an idiot who belongs to a motorcycle group, or 3. he’s a real idiot who’s a neo-Nazi, or wannabe. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/28 "2016-12-25T12:20:18Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > As others have pointed out, the Iron Cross is older than the Swastika. Well, swastikas have ancient roots in several cultures–but the Nazis made it _their_ symbol & pretty much ruined it for everyone else. > > Some of the first motorcycle & custom car clubs who adopted the Iron Cross included vets who’d\* personally\* acquired them. They were meant to shock–but were never as hateful as swastikas. > > Today, I’d consider other factors when about someone wearing the Iron Cross. Like the reset of their ensemble & their attitudes. Today’s hip Neo-Nazis prefer nice suits & “Fashy” haircuts. [Which has caused consternation among fashionable fellows who had the haircut first–_without_ the hateful ideas.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2016/11/30/does-this-haircut-make-me-look-like-a-nazi/?utm_term=.f6285f6842a3) Sorry–it’s to late to edit but I do need to fix my mistake: > [@](#): > > Today, I’d consider other factors about someone wearing the Iron Cross. Like the rest of their ensemble & their attitudes. Again, without a swastika, the Iron Cross is merely a questionable fashion choice. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/29 "2016-12-25T15:12:54Z")
I guess all I can say is as a Jewish person forgive me for being a little prejudicial to someone celebrating the German Military. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/30 "2016-12-25T16:08:53Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > 1. … > > 2. The majority of people who wear the Iron Cross today are [probably doing it because they’re actively serving in the German armed forces.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundeswehr) As the Iron Cross was last awarded in 1945 no person decorated with it is currently serving in the German armed forces (in fact all but very few recipients have joined the ranks of the vitally disadvantaged). A variant of the Iron Cross has been used as part of the logos of the Bundeswehr and forces/units but AFAIK it’s not a prominent part of any uniform (given past history as a _decoration_ you wouldn’t make it part of an _uniform_.) ---
**Author:** ![Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/4af34b/32.png) [@Zeke\_N.Destroi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeke_N.Destroi)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/31 "2016-12-25T16:41:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > This is [illegal](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8454715.stm) in the UK. And the UK started handing out Iron Crosses when praytell? ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/32 "2016-12-25T18:29:57Z")
The symbol registers as somewhat archaic and rooted in deeper principles than the swastika - like seeing a colonial flag instead of a confederate flag. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2016, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/33 "2016-12-25T20:16:30Z")
It seems by most of the replies that I don’t think I was clear enough in the OP, my bad. I am definitely not talking about war vets/people who actually earned the medal itself. I am talking about people who wear it purely as a fashion thing. Necklace pendants/tattoos/what have you. As mentioned, it’s very common in the goth scene, as is German music in general. It usually is coupled with military style clothing. Actually, having googled “goth uniform” and “goth military” in trying to find an example image I seem to have answered my own question as to whether or not the symbolism is questionable. It’s Nazi fetishism in full force. However, it isn’t the cross itself which makes it so. It’s the full package. So I shouldn’t have isolated just that one detail, but somehow it was the detail that always caught my eye. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/34 "2016-12-26T01:02:04Z")
I don’t care. I hate people who do evil things, not people who wear evil costumes. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/35 "2016-12-26T02:00:54Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > … > Actually, having googled “goth uniform” and “goth military” in trying to find an example image I seem to have answered my own question as to whether or not the symbolism is questionable. It’s Nazi fetishism in full force. > … When I Google image searched [goth military] what came back was fetishism mostly in the sexual or Haloween costume sense, not in the Illinois Nazi white supremacist sense. I’m not sure what that means for society, nor do I know what you meant by “fetishism.” But it seems pretty obvious that pretty much nobody wearing those clothes in those pictures has been drooling over Mein Kampf. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/36 "2016-12-26T02:56:27Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > When I Google image searched [goth military] what came back was fetishism mostly in the sexual or Haloween costume sense, not in the Illinois Nazi white supremacist sense. > > I’m not sure what that means for society, nor do I know what you meant by “fetishism.” But it seems pretty obvious that pretty much nobody wearing those clothes in those pictures has been drooling over Mein Kampf. So if it’s sexy it can’t have sinister undertones and is obviously meant in jest. Got it. [By the way, for the most part those aren’t halloween costumes, nor bedroom-wear.](https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3223/2690606678_6d758ded80_b.jpg) It’s stuff I’ve seen plenty people wear when they go out to clubs. I am giving them the benefit of a doubt, but to say it’s obvious they aren’t “drooling over Mein Kampf” is ridiculous. It’s not “obvious” to me. ---
**Author:** ![installLSC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/54ee81/32.png) [@installLSC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/installLSC)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/37 "2016-12-26T15:58:17Z")
Whenever I see an Iron Cross in real life (not that often), I think in order World War I Metal bands Bikers I don’t really consider the Iron Cross as a Nazi symbol, since the swastika/head shaved with leather jacket look far more resonates as a skinhead signifier. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/38 "2016-12-26T16:42:06Z")
I would interpret it as someone trying to make a certain statement w/o going so far as to use an actual swastika. I know it’s more a WWI thing, but I’m sympathetic to the idea that WWI and WWII weren’t two separate wars, just one great war with a 20-year cease-fire in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/39 "2016-12-26T17:40:53Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > A variant of the Iron Cross has been used as part of the logos of the Bundeswehr and forces/units but AFAIK it’s not a prominent part of any uniform (given past history as a _decoration_ you wouldn’t make it part of an _uniform_.) You’re right - they use it on vehicles, but not on uniforms. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487/40 "2016-12-26T20:30:48Z")
I was about ten in the mid sixties. I lived in Ohio and I recall seeing the Iron Cross used in the context of California surf, hot rod and motorcycle culture. I recall seeing them in medallion form, to be worn on a chain around the neck and as decals applied to the back windows of cars. I knew the swastika was associated with the bad guy soldiers in WWII but didn’t understand the true nature of the Nazis. I didn’t make any connection like that with the iron cross. I may have seen it in war movies. I’m not sure how I feel about it now, not that I think about it. I guess if you can separate it from political ideology it is kind of a catchy design. Is there a name for [this type of cross](http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0/all_images/Modelling/BeutePanzers/Markings/Beute-Markings-41.jpg) used on German tanks and planes in WWII? [Here is another pic.](https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/03/28/25/0328257d2c2a9282034f9efde25526f7.jpg) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-people-wearing-the-iron-cross/775487.md?page=3)