# How Do You Feel About The CHAZ / Seattle Take Over **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 12, 2020, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551 "2020-06-12T17:55:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/61 "2020-06-25T14:41:20Z")
I am. Police must do their work within the confines of the Constitution, and people’s rights must be protected even as the law is enforced. Police who violate the law should be disciplined, fired and/or prosecuted, depending on the nature of the violation. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/62 "2020-06-25T14:43:28Z")
There was a discussion a while back about the political optics of “defunding the police.” I don’t think defunding the police is politically toxic - it’s just a slogan, after all, and anyone can slap a slogan onto a movement. What matters more is the behavior and conduct of the movement, and I agree with you that this is beginning to smell like an OWS dirty diaper. Slogans aren’t problems - even the occasionally radical one. But tearing down statues, burning down businesses, and shutting down actual law and order…that’s a problem. I hate to say it, but the orange madman was correct in saying that people do want law and order. People want order. For every Robespierre, there’s a Napoleon lurking behind him. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/63 "2020-06-25T15:06:10Z")
Without giving the orange assclown the credit he doesn’t deserve, I think it’s fair to say that non-authoritarian societies that respect and observe the rule of law tend to fair better over time than those that do not. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/64 "2020-06-25T15:32:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The way our police does business is so utterly fucked that people who get shot don’t want to give them information about their shooters. If this was an isolated incident, that would be one thing; but this happens all the time. Victims are literally more afraid of the police than they are of their shooters. So much for “serve and protect”. Most likely, knowing that area and the time of the night, it was a shooting where the 2 people knew each other and the victim wouldn’t be giving info to the police regardless. ---
**Author:** ![eenerms](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/cdc98d/32.png) [@eenerms](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eenerms)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/65 "2020-06-25T17:02:09Z")
The business owners and residents are going to sue the city for abandoning the area. Also a person who was shot says he wants to sue the police for not responding quickly enough. Ironic ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/66 "2020-06-25T17:38:09Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Without giving the orange assclown the credit he doesn’t deserve, I think it’s fair to say that non-authoritarian societies that respect and observe the rule of law tend to fair better over time than those that do not. Though I think small instances of thumbing nose at the law can be very fruitful. For example, the Civil Rights Movement was centered on deliberately flouting the law - now they accepted their consequences, but they deliberately sat in lunch counters they weren’t allowed according to the law. They deliberately sat in areas on the bus they weren’t allowed according to the law. These disrespects of the law was intended to make changes in the law and we are better off for it. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/67 "2020-06-25T17:52:12Z")
Certainly true. Non authoritarian societies must enshrine in law the right for non-violent protests, including some margin for testing the outer boundaries of civil law. ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/68 "2020-06-25T18:21:19Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > tearing down statues, burning down businesses, and shutting down actual law and order Is one of these potentially not like the other two? ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2020, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/69 "2020-06-27T17:12:26Z")
City tried to take down barriers yesterday but were stopped. The supposed “leaders” are trying to negotiate things and are asking some people to leave. Supposedly the city will be removing barriers on Sunday the 28th. Anyone have any personal insights? I read it can be dangerous at night. ---
**Author:** ![urbanredneck2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/5f8ce5/32.png) [@urbanredneck2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urbanredneck2)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2020, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/70 "2020-06-27T17:13:45Z")
I think a bigger question is could this effect future elections? Should voters ask future mayors what they would do if a CHAZ situation should start? I would. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/71 "2020-06-29T18:21:51Z")
According to the New York Times they’ve now had 4 shootings over the past 10 days: > **[Another Fatal Shooting in Seattle’s ‘CHOP’ Protest Zone (Published 2020)](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/29/us/seattle-protests-CHOP-CHAZ-autonomous-zone.html)** > > City officials have vowed to dismantle the free-protest area set up during anti-police demonstrations and retake the Capitol Hill police station. But worries of confrontation have delayed a resolution. Have any of the people above who said that this was basically just “a street fair”, “non-event”, “tailgate party”, or “farmer’s market” changed their minds? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/72 "2020-06-29T18:25:55Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Have any of the people above who said that this was basically just “a street fair”, “non-event”, “tailgate party”, or “farmer’s market” changed their minds? Have people changed their minds about what it was like two weeks ago, or about what it’s like now? ---
**Author:** ![ExVoxMachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@ExVoxMachina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExVoxMachina)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/73 "2020-06-30T10:21:20Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > Have any of the people above who said that this was basically just “a street fair”, “non-event”, “tailgate party”, or “farmer’s market” changed their minds? Woodstock to Altamont. It **was** a peaceful gathering. No I haven’t changed my mind that it **was** a street fair. Also 2 of the victims of the shootings happened outside of chop. As I said earlier this was a bad place for this to happen. these 7 blocks are very [crime](https://www.neighborhoodscout.com/wa/seattle/crime) adjacent. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/74 "2020-06-30T17:47:31Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > … > > The way our police does business is so utterly fucked that people who get shot don’t want to give them information about their shooters. If this was an isolated incident, that would be one thing; but this happens all the time. Victims are literally more afraid of the police than they are of their shooters. So much for “serve and protect”. No, they are more afraid of retribution from the shooters- “snitches get stitches” etc. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/75 "2020-06-30T18:38:22Z")
Look at the support for mob rule on this very site. Whenever a mob vandalizes statues or monuments or engages in political intimidation the amount of people here supporting that is generally in the vast majority here. Why? Because the mob action is advancing their ideology in a way that democracy can’t. It’s a terribly bad tactic because it’s going to lead to violence as those who are targeted by the mob feel they have no recourse other than to respond in kind. Chaz/chop is ridiculous. People being murdered, raped, extorted by those who want no police presence? Where the social workers protecting these folks from each other? ---
**Author:** ![ExVoxMachina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/59ef9b/32.png) [@ExVoxMachina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExVoxMachina)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/76 "2020-07-01T12:35:06Z")
As of 05:32 the [SPD](https://www.twitch.tv/woke) is extracting whats left of protesters. The “Mob” appears to be about 12 homeless people. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/77 "2020-07-01T14:12:38Z")
_Sic transit gloria_ CHAZ. ---
**Author:** ![Harrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac8455/32.png) [@Harrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harrington)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/78 "2020-07-01T18:40:33Z")
CHOP is being chopped. The police-free zone is now thematically full of police. Many appreciate CHOP’s efforts to demonstrate what a police-free society offers. It’s unfortunate that at least six people were shot and two teens died (one in critical condition) to illustrate the obvious. Many crimes likely unreported. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/gPRxNra8opM/hqdefault.jpg "Seattle police move into CHOP, arrest at least 23 people.") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPRxNra8opM) ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/79 "2020-07-01T19:33:35Z")
We’ll never know what the per capita murder would have been after a year. And we lost out on the bountiful harvest from the fertile soil and cardboard garden of CHAZ. Now that this area is being cleaned up, which if it were up to me it would be from the labor of the CHAZians, I think the residents and businesses need to get some lawyers and sue the city. ---
**Author:** ![Harrington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac8455/32.png) [@Harrington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harrington)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2020, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551/80 "2020-07-01T19:44:29Z")
Businesses and residents have already enacted litigation. > **[Capitol Hill residents and businesses sue city of Seattle for failing to...](https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/capitol-hill-residents-and-businesses-sue-city-of-seattle-for-failing-to-disband-chop/)** > > Calfo Eakes LLP, the law firm representing the group, said in a statement the lawsuit is "not a step (their) clients have taken lightly," adding that they stand with the Black Lives Matter movement and support demonstrators' right to free... Do you think they were practicing crop rotation? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/how-do-you-feel-about-the-chaz-seattle-take-over/855551.md?page=5)